moonslav59

That series was past the deadline, and we were tied for first afterwards, but I get your point.

Actually, trading Bogey and then re-signing him is the best of both of your worlds.

BTV has Herrera worth almost twice as much as that pitcher you mentioned.

Plus, Judge might want $250/7.

That and the failure to get vaxxed for the Toronto series has convinced me to deal him, asap.

We lost to the Yanks 28-5 back in Sept of ‘78, but that was over 2 games. That was the start of the 4 game Yankee sweep that put us from 4 up to tied. Later, we went on a tear to tie the season back up, only to be disgusted by Bucky f***ing Dent.

How about Bogey and $3M to STL for Herrera, their highly rated catching prospect?

Plus, Story is a career .238 hitter from the 8th inning on, not .200 and he has 58 XBHs in 619 PAs after the 7th. He’s also a career .252 batter (.818 OPS) with RISP. Nothing worse than a troll spewing falsehoods mixed with inflaming rhetoric.

I feel like he jumped the gun on firing Ben, but he did watch 3 last place finishes before pulling the plug. I think last years success was a bit of a surprise to Henry and Bloom, and maybe that raised their expectations and rebuild timelines needed to reach top level competitiveness, but I really don’t think Henry is even considering firing Bloom or Cora. Maybe my own opinions are biasing my position, but I think Bloom deserves this off season to truly make this team his own and be judged accordingly. No, Henry is not happy. No Sox fan or employee/employer could possibly not be shaken to their core, after last night and the last 3 weeks of this season. Knee-jerk reactions rarely work. I think top brass remains focused on the longer term outlook, as they have since the end of 2019, but I also think they will try to not only improve 2024 and beyond’s hopes, but also to try and field and exciting team to watch in 2023, despite not likely being a top contending team. Just my take.

Disengage with trolls. They seek attention.

As bad as things look, right now, there is some promising foundational pieces still remaining on this team and on the farm. (Some of the not so promising are also listed. Any not listed are by my choice.) Here's a look at some... (on the farm to start 2023) Rotation: Sale Paxton Pivetta Bello Winckowski (Mata, Seabold, Murphy, Walter, Groome) Pen Houck Whitlock Schreiber Crawford Taylor German Davis (Feltman, Santos Catcher Wong RHern (Cottam, Hickey) 1B (Casas, Jordan, Kavadas) 2B Downs (borderline) (Yorke, Paulino) SS Story (2B?) (Mayer, Lugo, Bonaci) 3B Devers (Binelas) LF Duran/Verdugo (just 1) CF (Rafaela, Bleis) RF Refsnyder (Jimenez)

Note the ERAs before changing teams: 5.57 Holmes 5.50 Pivetta I'm so happy to know Holmes will revert back to sucking at any moment!

Verdugo's misplay on that ball hit to the wall, yesterday, reminded me of Mike Greenwell. I used to think trading Duran makes some sense. Now, I might prefer we trade Dugo. One of these Left Field only players should not be here, next year. Keepers: Everyday Devers (Forevers! PLEASE!) Story SS/2B (kinda have to) Refsnyder (we have no very good OF'ers) Borderline: Duran Pitchers Whitlock (obviously) Houck (despite the vax debacle) Pivetta (as a 4/5 starter) Winckowski (near borderline) Schreiber (could still have just been a flash) Bello (on promise, only) Crawford (near borderline) Sale (because we have to) Borderline: None This list does not include prospects.

Holmes: 5.57 with PIT 1.39 with NYY (a 4.18 disparity) Pivetta: 5.50 with PHI 4.42 with BOS (a 1.08 disparity) Who is fooling who?

As expected, we are seeing a lot of posters coming out of the woodwork, today (and last night.)

I was already leaning towards an all out sell-off, so maybe "radical" was a poor choice of words, but yesterday's game moved the needle more than any other single game has ever done, since maybe that shellacking we took from the Yanks, decades ago.

Any moment, he should revert to what he was. No player has ever improved over his previous norm.

I don't think I have ever used one game to radically change my mind about anything pertaining to baseball, but yesterday tested that limit.

Here are some trades I threw together without a lot of thought, but that give the general idea of what might be possible: Every BTV trade listed here, gives the advantage to the "other team." Bogey, Kike & Duran to PHI for Abel- their top pitching prospect O'Hoppe- one of the best catching prospects in the minors Crouse- RHP'ing prospect Kingery- a salary dump to more than offset Bogey's contract (2 more yrs) Segura- another salary dump to sweeten the return. He can play 2B/SS, next year as a bridge to ____? Eovaldi, JD, Vaz, Strahm & $2M to NYM for DSmith 1B (2 years remaining) Ziegler RHP (decent pitching prospect but nothing special) Wacha, Hill, Sawamura & Diekman to STL for Matz (salary dump w 3 years left) Yepez 1B/DH (promising ML player w 5 yrs left) Love RHP prospect with minimal value Is this a bout the best we can expect? Does this significantly help us in the extended future while giving us some hope to be decent in 2023, assuming we add a bunch of salary?

We can throw cash with Nate and JD and get decent prospects. Some prospects we get will not work out, but stockpile them anyway. We got Pivetta and Seabold for Workman and Hembree, so good thing can happen, just do t expect that return on every deal.

He might have expected it, before the year started.

Mercy, mercy, mercy. Every slot in the Jays line-up got on base 3 or more times! This was as sickening as a game could possibly be.

Might be the lowest leverage situation in MLB history.

I always hate starting next year's thread, because it means this year's hopes are over. I guess I can say I still have a sliver of hope for the 2022 season, but I'd be lying. This season started like a cluster, turned real nice for a bit, and then turned sour quickly. I'm not going to blame injuries, since teams like the Yanks have had tons of injuries during years we have beaten them. I'm going to look at where we go from here, and specifically what we can maybe expect in 2023. First, we need to look at trading anybody and everybody not part of our long term plans for the best we can get. I'll start with the easy part- one year controlled players: Bogey: He has a no trade clause, but he'd probably waive it to get a chance for a ring, especially if he feels like he won't be coming back to Boston, next year. I'm not sure just how much we'd get for him, but he's the one with the most value. (Thanks for many good memories.) JD Martinez: I could see us trying to bring him back on a shorter term, lower cost contract, but then I think these DH only guys getting towards an age where serious decline normally is already in progress, why not look for someone with a more promising future. Get what we can, but get something. (Thanks for earning your keep, JD.) Eovaldi: Despite his recent troubles, he may still have or build some value in his next 1-2 starts. Get what we can. I doubt we re-sign him, either. (Thanks for stepping up in 2018. A true hero.) Vaz: Might get a decent return. I doubt we try hard to bring him back, anyway. (We tried to trade for Stalling, last winter.) Kike: His injury may make his trade value near zero, but see what we can get. (Thanks for 2021, Kike!) Wacha: He won't be back before the deadline, so see what we can get. (Too bad you got hurt.) R Hill: He won't be back before the deadline, so see what we can get. (Just didn't work out.) Strahm: Get what we can. (Looked good for 3 months.) Plawecki: Sorry, but he won't be missed. Now, the Options: JBJ: Just say NO! Eat the $8M buyout that counted on this year's tax bill, and don't even think about him earning the $4M more he'd get for 2023, if we give him the option. Paxton: $13M team option or $4M player option. I'd think we'd take this one, but if we decide the priority is 2024 and beyond, maybe not. Sawamura: $3M option or $600K buyout. I'd say no, and move on. I think Cora agrees. Not sure about Bloom. Assuming no 1 year guys come back, and only Paxton's option is given, here is the starting framework for 2023: Luxury Tax Dollars ($Millions) 31 Players on 40 Man, now SP 25.6 Sale 8.5 Pivetta (Arb 2 of 3) .72 Winckowski (pre Arb) .72 Crawford (pre Arb) .72 Mata (pre Arb) .72 Bello (pre Arb) minor Seabold (pre Arb) minor Groome (pre Arb) RP 9.4 Barnes 4.7 Whitlock 3.5 Diekman (if we can't trade him, now of this winter) 1.5 Brasier (Arb 3 of 3, if he's not traded or DFA'd by '23) 1.1 Taylor (Arb 2 of 4) 1.1 Davis (Arb 1 of 3- no options remaining) .80 DHern (Arb 1 of 3) .73 Houck (pre Arb) .73 Schreiber (pre Arb) minor Danish (pre Arb) minor P Valdez (pre Arb) minor K Ort (pre Arb) C .72 Wong (pre Arb) .72 R Hernandez (pre Arb) 1B ~1.0 Cordero (Arb 2 of 3) .73 Dalbec (pre Arb) 2B 23.3 Story 1.3 Arroyo (Arb 2 of 3, if he's not traded or DFA'd by '23) 3B ~25 Devers (Arb 3 of 3) SS .72 Downs (pre Arb) LF ~6.0M Verdugo (Arb 2 of 3) CF .72 Duran (pre Arb) RF ~1.5 Refsnyder (Arb 2 of 3) That's about $122M for 31 players. Add a few $Million for the other 9M combined and $16M for player benefits, and we'll be around $140M before spending a dime on additions. To get to the threshold, we could spend $92M. To get to $12M over, like we are, now, we might spend about $104M. I'd say it's safe to say we might spend $90-100M over the winter, assuming we aren't looking at 2024 as the turn-around season. We have some Rule 5 Players that almost certainly be added to the 40: Casas Rafaela German Walter Murphy W Gonzalez Paulino Possibles: Bonaci Cottam Feltman Jimenez Koss, Northcut, Granberg, TWard, Santos, Song Adding Free Agents (assuming 7 Rule 5 additions), we have 2 open slots. Any more would mean trading or DFA'ing: Diekman, Ort, Valdez, Arroyo, DHern, Brasier and maybe Groome. Let's assume 6 additions. That leaves this for the 40: SP: _____, Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Winckowski Crawford, Bello, Mata, Seabold, Groome, Walter, Murphy, Gonzalez RP: Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, _____, Taylor, Davis, Brasier German, Danish, DHern C: _____, Wong R Hernandez 1B: _____, Dalbec/Cordero Casas, Cordero/Dalbec 2B: Story Paulino 3B: Devers SS: ______, Downs LF: Verdugo, Duran CF: ______ Rafaela RF: Refsnyder

Just like that- negative run differential on the season.