moonslav59

I get your point about other teams likely improving, too, but again, who else gained 2 in the top 100 while holding firm on depth. (Also, if a few teams also added a couple to the top 100, some teams lost a player or two. Our graduated players were not all that highly ranked, last year. All I'm saying is that I think Law needs a more in depth explanation for his failure to move us up even 1 slot. I'm not buying the "drops" by Duran and Downs offset the additions and improving player by enough to keep us at #20.

Renfroe + 5 players.

The haul seems pretty promising: Pivetta Seabold Winckoski R Hernandez Others have some high upside but are raw, now.

We also added Hamilton, Binelas, McDonough, Hickey and others. I'm sure other teams added more depth, but it's not like we took a step back beyond the top 100-150.

What offset the rise of Casas and Bello? Did Duran's 112 first PAs in MLB really cancel out his .873 OPS in his first year at AAA? While Jeter Downs certainly dropped off a cliff in AAA, he basically jumped a level. He did follow his AAA season with a decent Fall League OPS of .880. Casas improved in AA (.879 to .830 in A/A+ the year before), then hit .866 in limited action at AAA. He followed than up with .982 in AZFL. Did Law move him up in his rankings? Jordan and Groome's stock rose, but maybe that was offset by Jimenez and Mata's fall. I can understand that other teams may have improved, too, but nobody else added Mayer. That alone, should have moved us up.

How many other teams went from 2 prospects near 5oth to 4 in the top 90? They can't all gain 2 slots. Plus, it was his comment about the Sox pitching being better than it has been in ages, and only Bello was in his top 100. That makes it look like he thinks we are deep in at least one area. I get how rankings involve other teams, who may or may not have improved over last year, but a lot of players graduated, last year, too. I still think he owes a deeper explanation.

It doesn't make sense. He says are pitching is the best it's been in a long time. He ranks 4 in his top 100 (2 better than last year), and we did not exactly get weaker in depth beyond the top 100. IMO, he has more "splainin' to do." What harmony posted does not go far enough.

Not real big Vets, but some were pretty good. Price went with Betts, but many of us felt like that was a salary dump. We traded Beni for what amounted to 5 players/prospects. We traded Workman with Hembree (Pivetta & Seabold.) Moreland for Rosario & Potts. Pillar for Jacob Wallace. And of course, the great Mazza and Springs for Ro. Hernandez.

Same as last year, despite adding Mayer, Hamilton, Binelas, Bleis, McDonough. Hickey and others. Houck, Dalbec and Arauz graduated. Whitlock did, too, but he was not highly rated last winter.

Hard to top these numbers for a Sox SS: Vern Stephens Best 2 years ('49-'50) .292 69 303 (.901 OPS) over 162 games: 37 HRs and 161 RBI 3 years ('48-'50) .285 98 440 (.874)

The fact that he has 4 of our prospects in his top 86, makes it seem like he's messing up on one end or the other. I get the fact that are farm is not super deep, but it's not void of hopefuls beyond #4.

Where did Law have us, last year?

How about these numbers per PA: 0.062 Manny 0.054 Betts 0.048 Boggs 0.048 Lynn 0.047 Papi 0.047 Mo 0.046 Nomar 0.041 JD 0.039 Youk 0.033 Evans 0.033 Yaz 0.033 Rice 0.032 Fisk 0.031 Smith 0.026 Devers 0.024 Tony C 0.024 Bogey 0.024 Nixon 0.023 Damon 0.023 Greenwell 0.022 Ellsbury 0.018 Burks 0.017 Pedey 0.016 Valentin 0.008 Rico

He always wanted to be an Italian. (Don't we all?)

His D brought him down. Here's the overall offensive rating from 1960-2021: Sox Top 25 (w PAs) 463 Yaz- 13991 398 Papi- 8398 354 Boggs- 7372 341 Evans- 10240 298 Rice- 9058 292 Manny- 4682 211 Mo- 4452 202 Nomar- 4345 195 Betts- 3629 168 Lynn-3513 153 Youk- 3974 140 Fisk- 4353 134 Smith- 4263 118 Greenwell- 5166 115 Bogey- 4758 114 Pedey- 6777 90 Nixon- 3829 89 JD -2177 78 Tony C- 3299 70 Ellsbury- 3204 65 Damon- 2782 62 Devers- 2344 57 Burks- 3132 67 Valentin- 4269 53 Rico- 6170 After Rice, there is a big drop off in PAs, except for maybe Pedey & Rico, but even those 2 are far from Rice in PAs.

Best 5 year stretches by Sox everyday players. (Players listed only once y best stretch.) 42.4 Boggs 85-89 40.1 Yaz 66-70 35.4 Betts 15-19 27.8 Nomar 97-01 26.7 Rico 67-71 26.5 Pedey 08-12 25.4 Lynn 75-79 25.0 Reggie Smith 69-73 24.6 Valentin 93-97 24.3 Papi 03-07 24.2 Vaughn 94-98 23.9 Rice 75-79 23.9 Youk 07-11 23.8 Evans 81-85 23.3 Fisk 74-78 22.5 Manny 01-05 22.0 Bogey 17-21 18.8 Greenwell 87-91 16.8 Nixon 99-03 16.8 Ellsbury 09-13 15.0 VTek 01-05 13.9 Damon 02-06 13.5 JBJ 15-19 13.4 Burleson 76-80 13.2 JD Drew 06-10 12.9 Devers 17-21 12.7 Jody Reed 88-92 12.7 Bressard 60-64 12.1 Gedman 83-87 11.7 Naehring 93-97 11.0 JD 17-21 10.4 Tony C 64-68 10.0 Mike Andrews 67-71

Best 5 year stretches by Sox pitchers since 1960. (I only listed the best 5 year period of each pitcher.) fWAR 41.3 Pedro 99-03 33.1 Clemens 89-93 22.6 Tiant 72-76 22.3 Monbouquette 60-64 19.5 Lester 08-12 19.0 Beckett 07-11 18.3 Culp 68-72 18.2 Sale 17-21 17.5 Eckersley 78-82 16.6 Hurst 84-88 15.1 Schilling 04-08 13.3 D Lowe 00-04 13.1 Porcello 15-19 13.1 Lonborg 65-69 11.7 Wake 01-05 11.6 ERod 17-21

Best fWAR Seasons by Sox players since 1961: 11.6 Pedro '99 11.1 Yaz '67 10.4 Betts '18 9.6 Rico '69 9.4 Pedro '00 9.5 Ellsbury '11 9.3 Yaz'68 9.2 Clemens '88 8.9 Boggs '87 8.9 Yaz'70 8.8 Boggs '85 8.6 Boggs '88 8.6 Lynn '79 8.5 Clemens '91 8.4 Clemens '87 8.3 Boggs '89 8.3 Betts '16 8.2 Valentin '95 8.2 Clemens '90 7.9 Pedey '11 7.8 Greenwell '88 7.7 Rice '78 7.7 Boggs '86 7.7 Boggs '83 7.6 Fisk '77 7.6 Sale '17 7.6 Nomar '00 7.6 Clemens '92 7.4 Pedro '03 7.4 Pedro '02 7.3 Nomar '98 7.1 Lynn '75 7.1 Clemens '86 6.8 Clemens '96 6.8 Bogey '19 6.6 Betts '19 6.6 Evans '81 6.6 Fisk '72 6.5 Evans '82 6.5 Schilling '04 6.4 Beltre, Nomar, Pedey 6.3 Ortiz '07, Yaz '63, Nomar '99, Reggie Smith '70, Vaughn '98 6.2 Sale '18, Vaughn '96, Rice '83, Youk '08, AGon '11 6.1 Tiant '74, Boggs 6.1 6.0 Boggs 6.0 5.9 Youk, Devers, JD 5.8 Manny, Nomar, Yaz 5.7 Pedro, Beckett, Lonborg, Fisk 5.6 Eovaldi, Gedman 5.5 Pedro, Rice, R Smith 5.4 Monbouquette, Lester

Best UZR/150 Seasons by Position: 900+ innings RF 27.4 Nixon '05 21.1 Betts '18 20.9 Betts '16 CF 25.3 Crisp '07 17.1 JBJ '14 16.1 Ellsbury '11 LF 5.8 Beni '18 0.6 Jay Bay '09 0.2 Beni '19 1B 11.8 AGon '11 10.7 AGon '12 10.7 Youk '07 2B 16.1 Pedey '14 10.1 Pedey '08 9.4 Pedey '17 3B 12.1 Mueller '05 11.2 Beltre '10 4.6 Lowell '07 & '06 SS 14.6 Alex Gonzalez '06 9.9 S Drew '13 4.7 Aviles '12

I made a long list of all the best fWAR seasons by Sox players since 1961, but it got erased by some site issue. One surprising thing there was that Greenwell's best season topped Rice's best season.

Since Yaz joined the Sox in 1961, here are the fWAR leaders since then (51 years): 94.8 Yaz 70.8 Boggs 64.3 Evans 50.8 Rice 48.8 Papi 46.6 Pedey 39.4 Petrocelli 38.9 Nomar 38.3 Fisk 37.2 Betts 32.0 Reggie Smith 31.6 Bogey 31.2 Valentin 30.7 Lynn 29.6 Manny 28.9 Youk 27.6 Mo 25.7 Greenwell 22.2 Nixon Top 5 by position: (Some players are counted in multiple positions) C: Fisk, Varitek, Gedman, Vaz, Salty 1B: Youk, Mo, Scott, Gonzalez, Stanley 2B: Pedey, Reed, Andrews, Barret, Mantilla 3B: Boggs, Rico, Valentin, Youk, Devers SS: Rico, Nomar, Bogey, Valentin, Burleson LF: Yaz, Rice, Manny, Greeny, Beni CF: Reggie, Lynn, Ellsbury, Burks, JBJ RF: Evans, Betts, Nixon, Drew, Tony C DH: Rice, Papi, JD, Stanley, Easler/Cooper Pitchers 76.8 Clemens 51.9 Pedro 28.5 Tiant 27.8 Lester 26.5 Wake 21.3 Beckett 20.9 Stanley 20.5 Monbouquetta 19.8 Hurst 18.8 Eck 18.3 DLowe 18.2 Sale 18.0 Culp 15.6 Lonborg 15.3 Lee 15.1 Schill 14.6 ERod 14.2 Buch 14.1 Paplebon 13.1 Porcello 12.3 Siebert 11.9 Boyd 11.5 Torrez 10.6 Price 10.1 Radatz, E Wilson & Gordon Overall with 35+ fWAR: 94.8 Yaz 76.8 Clemens 70.8 Boggs 64.3 Evans 51.9 Pedro 50.8 Rice 48.8 Papi 46.6 Pedey 39.4 Petrocelli 38.9 Nomar 38.3 Fisk 37.2 Betts

Indeed. It was even shorter then that of the 1981 to 2011 era. A lot hard to hit 17 playoff HRs in so few games.

My list: 1. Bogey 2. Rico 3. Nomar 4. Burleson 5. Valentin 6. Aparicio 7. Alex Gonzalez Best seasons since 1967 by fWAR: 9.6 Rico '69 8.2 Valentin '95 7.6 Nomar '00 7.3 Nomar '98 6.8 Bogey '19 6.4 Nomar '97 6.3 Nomar '97 5.8 Nomar '03 5.2 Bogey '21 5.2 Valentin '93 4.9 Bogey '18 4.9 Bogey '16 4.8 Nomar '02 4.6 Bogey '15 4.5 Rico '70 4.2 Rico '67 3.6 Drew '13 3.5 Burleson '79 3.2 Bogey '17 3.1 Jody Reed '89 2.8 Valentin '96 & J Reed '90 2.6 Burleson '80 2.4 Aparicio '73 & Burleson '77 2.0 Scutaro '10

The playoffs were way smaller back then.

Hardball posturing, maybe.