moonslav59

But, isn't it easy to look at current stats and say, we should have signed so and so on the cheap? We took a stab at Strahm, Diekman and Robles. We missed on 2, so far. We hoped Sale would be healthy and Whitlock and Houck could be in the pen FT. We were wrong, there, too. Maybe we hoped Barnes could regain some semblance of his former self- wrong. Maybe we hoped Taylor, one of our best RP'ers over the last 2-3 years would not injure his back- wrong. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect just one of these wrong choices to have worked out. IMO, only one working out might have made a huge difference. If 2 worked out, we might be praising the pen, right now.

I asked you who "& Company" was first, but unlike you, I will answer as best I know. I won't count ARod. 1. Clemens (no doubts, despite being a known liar about it) 2. Pettite (no doubt and admitted it) 3. Jason Giambi (admitted it) 4. David Justice (Mitchell Report states he bought PEDs) Want more? 5. Kevin Brown (Mitchel Report names 2 witnesses) 6. Denny Neagle (M.R.) 7. Jason Grimsley (M.R.) 8. Mike Stanton? (Mitchel Report claims he met with Radomski) Others, like Manny, who used while on other teams, but who played for the Yanks: Ricky Bones Ron Villone Dan Naulty Todd Williams Carlos Almanzar Felix Heredia Darren Holmes Josias Manzanillo Bobby Estalella Jim Leyritz Hal Morris Known Red Sox users or who used on other teams before or after the Sox? Jeremy Giambi Manny Papi? Canseco Paxton Crawford Clemens Manny Alexander? Tom House?

Nobody is saying that. Stop with the strawman constructions.

But would we if we had that closer at the expense of not having Story or Wacha, Hill and Strahm?

Within the context of their inherited/given roster and spending budget limits, how would you grade Bloom & Cora? I vote #1, easily.

Agreed. Just name Houck the closer and wiggle a way to fill spot starts. My second choice would be to rush German to the bigs, or at least try Kelly, Politi, Ort, Bracho or a farm starter in the pen (Seabold, Winckowski, Bello.) We need to start setting firm roles and sticking to them for a few weeks, anyway.

I have never assumed that, said that or implied that. I only said it was never proven. Big difference. If I had to guess, I think Papi probably did take something- maybe not knowingly, but that doesn't really matter. On Manny, I'm not so sure. Maybe 50-50. I think as he aged, he felt he needed help, but certainly he may have cheated while with the Sox, and was good at hiding it. Again, it's conjecture vs proven cases and more than 4 proven cases. You really don't see a difference? 4 proven vs 2 suspected? How do you view the Astros cheating scandal that robbed you of your certain ring vs the fact that everyone, including you guys were cheating? Just curious.

Why? It's obvious. I did not read the report you read and acted on the assumption the previous poster was being factual. Something one should never do, I guess.

I see BTV has Campusano at +29.1. I think we could also throw in someone like Downs and Seabold/Winckowski, and maybe that gets SD to agree. I know we've talked about Oakland as a possible source of young catching talent, but they are no necessarily looking at someone like Duran as an immediate need. BTV accepted this trade: Duran, Downs & Ward for Campusano, Myers & $4M cash

And, now we have the reason Houck was not used to close, last night.

I'm assuming guys who admitted to suing roids used them? I'm assuming players testing positive were actually were using roids? Guilty as charged.

No need to spin. It is not proof any or more Sox players juiced than Yankee players. You guys got caught, and it was way more than 3 players. Funny how Yankee fans blast the Astros for cheating, when "everyone was doing it, including the evidence that shows the Yanks (and Sox) were, too, but on steroids, you flip the narrative with no thoughts of being hypocritical. Sure, it's pretty certain some Sox were cheating, but you guys had your water fountain spiked with roids, It's apples and oranges.

You are assuming things I never even hinted as being true. Nice try. Are you and Red identical twins?

Good points, and I'm sure Bloom & Cora are aware of this. I've always felt Duran would be traded, due to the organizations focus on defense. If we can trade Renfroe for JBJ and prospects, why hold onto Duran? I'm not sure what Duran's trade value is, right now. I'm not sure anyone knows, but I have to think one GM values him enough to offer us a useful piece. Maybe a larger package can get us a solid piece at an area we need more than LF/DH.

I'm not so sure, anymore, but if Story's arm is fine, I don't see why we'd not use him at SS. I guess it might depend on who is the best signing or addition to the middle IF. I could see us signing Swanson or a 2Bman. I still feel Bogey is as good as gone, and no, that does not make me happy, but in the context of what this team has going forward, and what we need, and how much we might have tp spend, this coming winter on numerous gaping holes, I just don't see us spending $27+M a year on a SS who is not a plus defender. I think Bloom and Cora (rightfully) value defense, especially at key positions. It's why they signed Story and traded for JBJ. It's why Duran has not been given a longer look. It's why Verdugo has rarely played anywhere but LF. It's why we tried to trade for Stalling at catcher. It's why we added Iggy and Shaw, last summer. Since the Renfroe signing over a year ago, it's hard to find any choices or moves we've made that made our defense worse, except maybe playing Cordero at 1B and bring Vaz back at $7M. I hope we keep Devers, but if $300M/10 is what it takes, I doubt Henry and Bloom do it. I think we will spend big, this winter, but maybe nothing larger or longer than what Story got. That will limit the quality of players we get, but we can stll get some fine players, and maybe more of them, instead of relying on just 2-4 top studs. I'm not sure it's a winning strategy. It seems like the 4 winning Sox teams of the past always relied on 2-3 mega stud hitters and 2-3 solid SP'ers and a closer. Again, this winter will be Bloom's defining moment.

Never said that, but explain your "company" statement. Name names. Papi's rumored "positive" test was never proven, and the substance was unknown. Manny was caught in LA, not BOS. Is it highly probable some Sox cheated? Of course, but to equate the two teams with this "whole league was juicing" crap is unjustified. You guys had 4-5 proven examples. It's hardly close to equal.

Not really, and who is the "company?" Fan since Boggs didn't even mention Clemens & Co.

His trade value has taken a hit, too, though, so trading when his stock is low might be a mistake. Trading Duran might net a better return. There is still time for Verdugo to bring his value back up.

Agreed, but I guess the hope would be to use the savings to upgrade the OF and pen.

Is it a back-to-back thing with Houck? I don't get it. The guy is young. He used to go 2-4 innings often. Is Cora trying to ease him into a 1 IP every 2-3, then 3-4 days over time, and he wanted to start out not going back-to-back? Either way, eventually we will have to use a scrub, when we only have 3 reliable RP'ers to go 2 innings every day. No matter what day Cora chooses to go with the scrub, he gets blamed.

To answer your first question: I think they view Brasier as a one inning guy, and using him over two seperate innings might have been thinking they already pushed their luck. The second reason might be the match-up with the next batter- I forget who it was. On the surplus of 7-7 inning guys, I think you got to the crux of the problem: 1) The surplus of 5-7 inning guys, some of which are not trustworthy in that role either, is not really a good thing. 2) We have 3 reliable 8-9 inning guys, and it's hard to call any of them a lock-down closer. Houck, Strahm and Schreiber can not handle 2 innings, every day. We need our starter to go 8 or 9, or we need a shaky pitcher, not named Houck, Strahm or Schreiber, to pitch the 8th maybe half the time or more. It's just asking for trouble. I do think Bloom is to blame. He extended Barnes and gave the rare 2 year deal to Diekman. In his defense, I will say we had the same concerns about the pen, last year, and it worked out okay, despite the starting pitchers doing much worse, last year and putting more stress on the pen. We can blame the limited winter spending budget or how Bloom allocated and divided the spending budget he was given, and that is all fair game. We can complain about how Story has not earned his paycheck, so far, or how Diekman has been a failure, but I'm not sure any RP'er signed for $4M should be expected to be a savior. We went into last year with no sure closer and a ton of question marks, and somehow Cora cobbled together a noteworthy season, using about 5-7 different closers and top set-up men. I think last year's success clouded Bloom's judgment concerning the pen. That being said, focusing on the mistakes and weak areas seems to take front and center stage more often than not. IMO, when you look at the overall picture of what Bloom has done since day one, it's been a clear plus in almost every area. If you look at just last winter: Story: not earning his paycheck, but not a complete failure. Take away everyone's best week, and he still leads the team in rbi per PA. That's a stretch, I know, especially coming from someone who usually criticizes those using rbi as a major measuring stick, but thos are the same poster most vocal about Story's failure after 53 games. Diekman: I disliked the signing from day one. I know it's only $4M, but why did he deserve the rare second year? Hill: At $5M, I think most would agree, Bloom got what he paid for. I had hoped for a little better, but I think he's a good 4/5 starter. Wacha: A clear major score for Bloom. This signing alone, more than balances the failure of Diekman and slow start by Story. Strahm: Another clear plus, and within the context of a pen in shambles, he's been a steady force in racking up wins when the pen was needed most. Brining back Robles was a mistake, but at $2M, and looking at what he did, last season, I think it was an understandable signing. Other guys picked up, last year, have done okay to well: Schreiber, Davis, Refsnyder & Danish. The JBJ deal has been beaten to death, but it looks a little better than it did when made, which to me, is not saying much. As we stand right now, we are in the playoffs- same as last year, despite some major offensive struggles early on and a pen that looks like a coin toss, everyday. Considering where this team stood after 2019 and through the 2020 season, where we lost Betts, Sale and ERod while spending just $20M and had the weakest bottom 20 on the 40 man roster than I have ever seen as a Sox fan, I think Bloom's tenure, so far, has been a net plus. This next winter will be his defining moment.

We could have gained a game on TOR, TBR and CLE.

We need to only use Houck, Strahm and Schreiber in these situations, even if it means using the clowns in high leverage 7th and 8th inning roles.

What a sick feeling to go to bed having! Thanks Hansel!

How many times do these weak hitters keep burning us?