moonslav59

I'm not trying to hedge my bets, here, and I have no idea if Bloom will "get the job done," this winter, but he really needs to hit on about 75-85% of all his key additions to make the 2023 team into a winner. I'm optimistic, but I realize he has not been at the 75-85% success rate, so far. While I do think he has shown a net plus in signings and non-trade additions, considering the budget he's had, he needs to do even better. I'm thinking he might hit 50-75%, and the odds on large and long contracts has been worse than that in MLB, but I would not bet on better than 67%.

He was way too young, back then. Certainly ownership and management were often blamed for not going the extra mile to add 1 or 2 more key pieces, especially that "second ace."

I agree, they won't count on German and many other prospects to be significant pluses in 2023, but I do think he has an inside track to making the opening day 26 man roster, as do Casas, Bello, Wong and Crawford. I think Enmanuel Valdez, Kelly and maybe one from Wink, Seabold and Ort may win the 8th RP'er slot. Compare that to the 3-5 year total of contributing prospects prior to 2023: Dalbec, Houck, Duran and I guess we can count Whitlock from the Yankee system.

No doubt, that is a fair criticism, although budget restraints were part of the equation. Yes, Bloom chose to add Paxton, JBJ and Diekman's money to the pool, but the additions of Wacha, Strahm, Schreiber, Refsnyder and to some extent Hill, more or less evened that out, IMO, if not ended up a net plaus, if you add McGuire, Pham and others to the balance sheet - not to mention further farm additions via trades.

He should have a big enough budget to go beyond anything he's ever had before, although he does have to replace Bogey, JD, Nate, Vaz and newcomers Wacha, Strahm and Hill. He will no longer have Pedey or Price's deadwood as a hindurence. I've said a few times, 2023 will be Bloom's "flashpoint."

If we are only looking at glimpses of skills shown in 2022, then I'd add Kelly (1.03 WHIP)to the list. Bazardo's sample is too small (10 IP w 1.000 WHIP), but you already made a determination on German after just 1 IP.

Okay, but you went out of your way to point out Casas and Bello were unimpressive, so it sounded like you were just listing all prospects who had an opportunity, this year, not those who still are only promising to you. I'd add Crawford to the list of Casas, Bello and Wong, and I still have hopes for German & Kelly. I have not given up on Wink, Seabold, Duran and Downs, but certainly I feel worse about them, after this year than I did in March. Earlier, you asked about who might help in 2023, and I think Mata has a good chance at adding to the 26 roster in 2023. Murphy, RHern, EValdez and possibly Rafaela, TWard, Abreu or Lugo may help later in 2023. There is some reason for optimism before 2024 comes around.

You did not say New players. Pivetta did prove he was not a fluke and should be a decent 4/5 going forward. Story improved 2B, immensely. He is not the reason Bogey might go. He will not be moved to SS in 2023. He was an addition to 2B. We aren't talking about possi ble losses. We were talking about what looks promising from 2022's team, concerning their 2023 outloook. Story: plus Schreiber: plus Refsnyder: plus Whitlock, Houck and Pivetta proved 2022 was not a fluke. Their futures, this March were largely unknown. Bello is ML ready. He just needs an adjustment period, and hopefully, some of that took place in this lost season- making 2023 look more promising than before. Crawford looks more promising now, than in March. Many do not, but you asked about who was promising or more promising.

What player has played a major part in us winning 4 rings, since 1918? I never said I enjoy following, watching or rooting for Henry over many of the great players the Sox have had since I have followed them in the early 70's of from 1918 to the 70's. I said Henry was the most important. It's not the same thing.

Not Schreiber, Refsnyder, McGuire, Wong, Story vs what we had at 2B for 2020-2021? Plus, Whitlock, Houck and Pivetta showed that 2021 was not a fluke. While Crawford, Casas and Bello's numbers do not look great, right now, all look pretty promising for 2023 and beyond, to some of us.

And now, we are spoiled. Do you disagree that society is moving more to or away from instant gratification for 45 years ago. It may have started gaining steam in the 60's and 70's, but it has clearly taken hold, these days.

Not for the instant gratification population, which abounds here and in Red Sox Nation.

Move the goalposts, again. You named Casas and Bello and not Wong or German, Wink, Seabold, Ort, Downs (the only one you mentioned) and Kelly. The 22 Red Sox are playing out the string in last place. I keep reading that Bloom has built up our farm, but down the stretch the only prospects getting any experience are Cassas (hitting .150) and Bello without impressive results. Where is the future. Duran only loses value as he plays more at the MLB level. Downs is a complete bust, so they don’t dare expose him any more. Who from the farm is ready to step up next season and contribute?[/i When you say "the only..." and don't mention 5-6 players, I think saying "ignored" is an accurate point. I also responded with a list of prospects beyond those called up this year that are expected to be promoted to the bigs in 2023: EValdez Mata Murphy (TWard, WAbreu and Rafaela may surprise in '23, too.)

I will add that we should have done better in 2022. It was a failure. Injuries and clubhouse discontent, perhaps attributed in part to uncertain contract issues were some reasons for the failure, but not all. Bloom and Cora share some of the blame. Not a single poster denies this. Many posters deny the contextual aspects of the tasks Bloom was handed after 2019. They also deny that the 2019 was not team that looked promising, going forward, especially the financial aspect of the contracts handed to Bloom. Not only was Bloom forced to trade the franchise player Betts and limit the return by including Price, he had to cut the budget even further than that in 2020. Add to that no Sale or ERod for all of 2020 makes for a untenable situation for any GM. Bloom wasn't even allowed to replace Betts & prices contract costs, in full, let alone not adding the savings of losing other contracts like Porcello, pearce and Holt. We cut about $80M from 2019: $27M Betts $21M Porcello $16M of Price $6M Pearce $5M Nunez $4M Holt Bloom was given $40M before the 2020 season and about $40M prior to 2021. (This doesn't even touch on the cost of Pedey, Sale, Nate, ERod (missing 2020) and JD, plus the continuing Price payments)

You were acting like Bloom's farm has given us nothing, despite that being an unrealistic expectation after just 3 years. Bloom's 2022 farm additions still outnumber DD's: German, Wink, Kelly, RHern, Ort, Downs, Seabold (1 gm in '21) and Wong (14 PAs in '21) 6, 8 if you count Seabold & Wong DD's: Casas, Bello, Crawford (1 gm in '21) 2, 3 if you count Crawford Ben's Bazardo (1 gm in '21) 1, 0 if don't count Bazardo

I will add that we should have done better in 2022. It was a failure. Injuries and clubhouse discontent, perhaps attributed in part to uncertain contract issues were some reasons for the failure, but not all. Bloom and Cora share some of the blame. Not a single poster denies this. Many posters deny the contextual aspects of the tasks Bloom was handed after 2019. They also deny that the 2019 was not team that looked promising, going forward, especially the financial aspect of the contracts handed to Bloom. Not only was Bloom forced to trade the franchise player Betts and limit the return by including Price, he had to cut the budget even further than that in 2020. Add to that no Sale or ERod for all of 2020 makes for a untenable situation for any GM. Bloom wasn't even allowed to replace Betts & prices contract costs, in full, let alone not adding the savings of losing other contracts like Porcello, pearce and Holt. We cut about $80M from 2019: $27M Betts $21M Porcello $16M of Price $6M Pearce $5M Nunez $4M Holt Bloom was given $40M before the 2020 season and about $40M prior to 2021. (This doesn't even touch on the cost of Pedey, Sale, Nate, ERod (missing 2020) and JD, plus the continuing Price payments)

The jury is still out on Bloom. What sounds like Bloom love to you is just defending him against many (not all) baseless attacks. Many of us like the fact that he is rebuilding the farm, but nobody knows if he has done a good job on that, or not, just yet, but he gets good marks for trying and at least improving the farm, on paper. When that was likely his top priority and not the here and now, like with DD, ignoring that context is ignorin g reality. Saying we are just making excuses and are seeing Bloom as doing only good things is a strawman argument. When you objectively look at the ML players Bloom has added ve the ones he inherited, do you see something we don't see? Dollar for dollar, Bloom's players blow the inherited ones away, and they include Devers & Bogey, who were not DD acquired players. Many of us expected a cliff. You refused to believe it was possible for any high spending team. Instead of realizing you were wrong, you cling to blaming the new management team- not the old. It's your choice, and that's fine, but stop with the whole thing about your view being the only objective one. You choose your criteria and negate the actual results of what this management team has added to the team vs what they inherited. Doing that is also an objective way of evaluating results.

You named farm guys like Casas and Bello, who were both DD additions as some sort of comment on Bloom's prospects, and failed to mention Whitlock or the somewhat promising Wong. Sounded like ignoring, to me. Bloom acquired prospects have already outperformed DD prospects, and we have yet to see a Bloom drafted or IFA signing promoted. If that doesn't say a lot, nothing will get through to you. You really think Bloom's drafting and farm should already be affecting our W-L record? Really? If yes, then you are missing the whole picture of what a farm system is or can be. The fact that Bloom's best draftees and signings were from HS or teen IFA signings means a longer wait for impatient fans is a reality but is not a bad thing.

Too many of you guys believed 2 falsehoods: 1. That a farm can be fully rebuilt in 1-3 years. 2. That a rebuilt farm will produce significant players in 1-3 years, and not even 1-3 years after the 1-3 years it took to rebuild. You expected a drafted prospect to contribute in a significant way in just 2-3 years. Our farm has never done that. Our most impactful home grown stars took this long to even make the big club, and some took a year or two in the bigs to become the stars they are/were: Devers (IFA in 2013- did not play in '13) debut in 2017 for 58 games (3+ years on farm/4+ years since signed) Betts (drafted 2011): debut 2015 for 52 games (4+ years on farm) Bogey (IFA in 2009-did not play in '09) debut in 2013 for 18 games (3+ yrs farm/4+ since signing) Lester (drafted 2002) debut 2006 for 15 starts (4+ years) Why expect results in 3 or less years, especially since the 2020 draft was just 4 rounds and we've seen HS players drafted... first 2 in 2020 first and fourth in 2021 first 3 in 2022

Add Walter to DD's prospects with an ETA of late 2023.

Hard to know. We have seen some help already, which you ignored, but not from drafted or IFA signings, just yet, and in that area, it may be a longer wait than you can accept, mostly due to Bloom drafting many HS players with his highest picks. Bloom acquired prospects that have played already: Whitlock (already proven to be better than any DD prospect) Wong Downs German Winckowski Z Kelly Seabold R Hern (Cordero, Schreiber and Refsnyder were not prospects, when acquired.) One could argue that Bloom's called-up farm additions (all via trade or Rule 5) have already shown more hope than all of DD's acquired prospects combined. That alone is astounding and objective. You can continue to ignore it. Soxprospects ETAs on Bloom's drafted or IFA prospects (with current ranking): 2023 2024 4. Yorke Late 2024 1. Mayer 29. Drohan 2025 10. Paulino 16. Jordan 20. Hickey 22. Kavadas 2026 or beyond 5. Bleis 9. Romero 11. Anthony 21. Coffey 28. Rodrigiez-Cruz 30. Brannon Acquired b y trade ETAs 2023 14. E Valdez 2024 26. WAbreu, A Binelas DD Prospects knocking on the door: 2023 7. Mata (may be the best DD prospect of all.) 12. Murphy (likely as a low-leverage RP'er) 2024 6. Rafaela (lots of promise) 17. T Ward 18. Lugo 19. Perales 2025 10. Paulino (2025 is 8 yrs after signed as IFA!) 15. Wikelman (has upside) 24. Bonaci (89 BB/89 Ks, this season)

Knee jerk reactionary moves breed success and less excuse making?

Also, Casas and Bello were not Bloom additions- nor were Duran, Dalbec and other less than impressive prospects getting the call. You blame this on Bloom, too. Wow!

You expect a farm to start producing studs earlier than 3 years? Look at the players coming up from DD's farm. How long ago were they drafted or signed as IFAs?c Look at the studs DD inherited, and how long before they were acquired by Ben and Theo. You should know better. You can blame Bloom for drafting HS players over college, which prolongs the ETAs, but had he not drafted Mayer, would you have been happy? Casas was drafted in 2018. Duran drafted in 2018. Houck was drafted in 2017. Bello: IFA in 2017. Crawford drafted in 2017. Dalbec drafted in 2016. Bazardo: IFA 2014 All other inherited, homegrown players were acquired in 2013 or earlier. Not a single DD prospect was called up within 3 years. I'm not sure how many Ben or Theo ones were.

I forgot to add JBJ to Bloom's winter additions. (I added on this post, but the editing button is not working, today.) If you do a WAR calculation for each category and then convert to WAR per dollar, the picture will become clear and is as objective as any one using W-L results as the only gauge for grading a GM's performance and effect on an inherited, troubled team about to go on a highly restricted budget. That's not excuse-making. It is reality.