moonslav59

I have no idea how this relates to what is now being discussed. You miss the context so often, it's difficult to have a debate with you. Do you think it's possible to disagree with someone on a few things out of thousands of things, but still like them and think they do an overall good job? That was the context of my statement on Cora. Obviously, you still don't get it.

I actually said you don't have to have a plan. I just said that criticizing other people's idea and plans without stating your own on how to build a better staff, rings hollow, to me. "Just my opinion." Again, you don't have to give us a plan. You can continue being "lazy" as you put it. Nobody is forcing you to tell us a better way to build a strong pitching staff, but some of us might take the criticism differently if you also gave us your "better ideas." It's usually how conversations and debates progress, but again, it need not be.

He keeps confusing the two ideas. It's okay to speculate what we think Bloom will do, too, but it's not the same as saying what we would do. I'd also add that a differing opinion or plan than what Bloom might have does not mean we think Bloom is necessarily wrong with his plans.

You really have issues with understanding questions. Our whole point is that you have never presented your plan or ideas, and now you act like we have said you had a plan. We are asking for your plan on how to build our 2023 staff. It's easy to say everyone else is wrong in their ideas, but why not tell us your ideas? I'm not saying you are wrong about free agents signings or the likelihood our farm will produce and ace or 2-3 really good pitchers, but not being wrong does not take you off the hook. You really should tell us how you would do it. You don't have to, but criticizing other people's plans without having one of your own makes the critiques ring a little hollow. Just my opinion, of course.

Every great pitcher once had no ML stats. You still won't tell us your plan on addressing our staff building for 2023. What good is having Bogey and Devers, if we have a s***** staff? If we don't sign any big FA pitchers, and won't get anything for prospects with zero stats in the bigs, the only thing left is trading "useless" prospects.

Still no plan about pitching.

Keep that mojo risin' Slendid! Let's keep the bats hot! (We may need it, today.)

One could apply the same reasoning to Red's clamoring to extend Bogey, too. If we are going to lose Devers, JD, Eovaldi and others and never get any good pitching from the farm, forever, why waste money on Bogey?

We were 19-13 in Eovaldi's starts, last year. If every starter gave us that, we'd be 30 games over .500 or 96-66. Maybe that's not ace material, but it's close. When you look at ERod's history of leading our team to wins, it's shockingly great. 19-12 in 2021 0-0 in 2020 26-8 in 2019 19-4 in 2018 One could argue, he was our "ace" since 2018.

Yes, but he was a prospect when we obtained him. No, he's not homegrown, but trading for prospects is one way to build up a farm that has trouble developing young SP'ers. We are trying to figure out ways to build a strong pitching staff, going forward. We can't count on Rule 5 picks like Whitlock to be commonplace. We tried trading for pitching prospects like Seabold and Winckowski, but they both have a ways to go to prove they are ML caliber starters. We can hope some of our most recent drafted or IFA pitching prospects do better than those in the past. It is possible history does not keep repeating itself forever, especially when changes have been made to your system of identifying who to draft/select and how to develop them, since the days of Ben and DD. I believe you seem to not give much importance to the potential value prospects hold, but we have some starters in the minors that are doing much better than anything I've seen in over a decade. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but I like our chances of developing 1-2 very good pitchers out of the current bunch: AAA 2.75 Winckowski (.498 OPS Against) 19 K: 5 BB 2.93 Seabold (.563 OPSAgainst) 26K: 9 BB These OPS Against numbers is like getting JBJ results from all the hitetrs youface! AA 1.60 Bello (.460 and 28K:8 BB) 1.97 Murphy (.526 and 41K:14BB 2.97 Walter (.532 and an amazing 42:2!!!) 4.26 Groome (.648 and 28:10) We also have some pen arms doing very well, like Frank German (trade) .449 OPSA, Politi .509 OPSA and Schreiber .643. I'd prefer to rely on more than hopes, too. That's why I think we should try to find top pitchers via trade, and every now and then via free agency. Wacha and Hill seem to be working, but Richards, Perez I and Perez II did not. Trying to find gems in the rough is a slippery slope, and relying on taht method, alone is scary as hell, to me. How about you? Tell us how you'd build a strong staff.

I touched on this, a while ago, especially with guys like Dalbec & Kike, and Renfroe, last year.

No, what's your answer on how to fix the problem- not why we have the problem. Put your plan out there.

Why are you acting like I'm saying we should or have counted on getting starters from the farm? (The jury is still out on Houck and Whiitlock as starters from our farm.) Maybe, we will under this new management, but personally, I would not count on it. Is your position that we don't need any aces to be highly competitive? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so why not tell us your idea of what would be a good way to build a winning staff. Then, people won't have to keep guessing what your ideas are. (Not Bloom's, but your ideas and plan.) Forget the starters and build a strong pen? Do you think we can win without an ace? (It has happened several times in MLB history, buy is this your wish?)

I'm not pretending to know what the 2023 team will look like, and I don't think anyone is. Many use this site to express their ideas on what we could or should do to make the team better going forward. Sometimes it's hard to know if someone is saying what they want or what Bloom might want. Some think it's pointless to express any ideas that it seems like Bloom would not go for. I would offer Eovalid $25M/1 and maybe $42M/2. If push comes to shove, maybe $45M/2. $60M/3 is pushing it, for me, but I realize overpaying is needed to keep our rotation strong- either that or trade away half the farm to try and find the next Sale.

Even our outs seem louder.

He says the farm cannot produce starters. He says not top FA pitchers are NOT worth it. Trading for aces is the only option left.

If it was all about team wins per start, ERod would be the highest paid pitcher in MLB.

Is he worth $20M, this year? You would not even offer him $20M/1 for 2023? If no, you will have to hope this management team can turn around the pitcher farm pipeline of trade for an ace, or two.

I do, too, and often argue against its overuse, but only in the context that there are some very good pitchers with low K rates and are poorly compared to others with high K rates who let up a lot of hits and BBs.. To see a pitcher drop that much in FIP is a warning sign, in my book. A lot has to do with his doubled HR/9 rate, but in a season where hitting and HRs are down, that number and FIP should jump out at us, even more. How about fWAR? -0.2 in 2019 0.9 in 2020 (pro-rate to 2.2) 5.6 in 2021 0.2 in 2022 (pro-rate to 1.1) BAbip makes me wonder, if his 2022 numbers are a bit lucky. .310 career and over .325 in 2020 and 2021, but .260 this year, despite these hard hit%'s: 39.7 2020 36.2 2021 43.4 2022 None of this worries you enough to back off a 4 year deal offer?

Of course it's up to Bloom, but it seems like you say every so-and-so is not worth it, except Bogey's hypothetical next contract. If I provide a list, it's easy, in hindsight, to say we should have or could have offered more for so-and-so, but saying it at the time of the signing is what should be stated: This past winter: $43M x 3 Scherzer $24M x 3 Stroman $23M x 5 R Ray $22M x 5 Gausman $22M x 2 Rodon (opt out if 110+ IP) $15M x 5 ERod (not an ace) Where does Eovaldi fit in this list, to you, not Bloom? The previous (COVID)winter: $34M x 3 Bauer The one before: $36M x 9 Cole $35M x 7 Strasburg $28M x 3 Gibson $24M x 5 Wheeler $20M x 4 Ryu $19M x 3 Keuchel $17M x 5 Bumgarner Looking at these lists makes me think we need to trade for an ace or get extremely lucky with our FA choice.

I think he is a much better pitcher, now, and those who use mostly career numbers miss an important part of valuing players. However, Eovaldi's age makes expecting him to remain who he is, today, a scary thought. We also have to think that maybe the 2021 season was an outlier. While his ERA and ERA+ numbers have remained very consistent since 2020, we have t remember 2020 was a short season and 2019 was not very good. ERA+ w BOS 133 (54 IP w the Sox) 97 w TBR 81 injured 2019 season 129 125 127 the last 3 years are awesome! Now look at FIP 2.88 2018 BOS 5.90 2019 3.87 2020 2.79 2021 led league 4.55 so far in 2022 .This should worry anyone saying 3-5 years should be offered. If you throw out 2019, his 2.0 HR/9 rate is the worst of his career and nearly double any season's HR/9 since 2016. His career HR/9 before 2022 was 0.9, and that includes all those seasons he was not all that good. These could very well be signs of decline or impending decline, and who knows how steep that decline might be.

Is there any ace-type pitcher who has been signed in the last 2-3 years, you thought was worth it at the time of the signing? (No hindsight thinking, please.)

They might prefer Yorke and Bello, if they are looking longer term. I doubt Crawfoed moves the needle.

I wish Bloom could find guys like him & Wacha! Oh, wait...

Are they the only ones going tonight that Woo has? How about... 2.75 Winckowski (.498 OPS Against) 2.93 Seabold (.563 OPS Against)