moonslav59
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Everything posted by moonslav59
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Probably true, although from what I hear, they were not too thrilled with OCab hitting on their wives. They weren't torn up over trading Manny, either. There was not clubhouse left after the Lester, lackey, Peavy & Doubront sell-off. What was the clubhouse like before & after the AGon, Beckett & CC trade?
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9/29 Red Sox and O's for the last time in '22
moonslav59 replied to vegasbob's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
Agreed, and I have done just that many times. When it comes to comparing Bogey's defense, for example, to other SSs in the league, I only watch about half the SSs in MLB (AL almost exclusively) and some for just 6 games a year. It's very hard to rely on the eye test first, but I do often notice, I see more spectacular plays by other SSs than our own. I also notice a few more errors by others, but not by more than plays made I never see Bogey make. My conclusion via the eye test is that Bogey is average at best on D. Yes, he improved from years before. I cannot know for sure, if he is better or worse than NL SSs, so by eye test only, it's hard to say he is below average or average at best. The dats shows he has been, almost every year, except maybe 2022. -
I'm not against that idea, but we all know we have much higher priorities than 4th OF'er and will likely not have enough budget space to try and upgrade there. (Maybe, mid-season, if needed.)
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You didn't hear it, because nobody said it.
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My point wasn't about making offers. It was about the Sox long history of not being shy about letting stars and semi-stars go before their time was up with the Sox, or after they reached free agency. Yes, one point I made was that they often make an offer to free agents-to-be and don't budge from it much, if at all, but I think this all fits into a longtime strategy of setting a value and not overpaying our own stars. Have we given a Price or CC type deal to any of our own stars? Maybe Sale and Agon, and Agon was here for a very short time before the extension was given.
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Only 4 players got over $65M in the '20-'21 off season. I didn't see any Seagers or Semien overpays that winter.
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That history is mostly good. He and his GMs mostly made wise choices trading or letting stars and semi-stars go at just the right time. Some on this list are not so "ancient," and with the Bogey departure up in the air, "history could be in the making or continuing as is, this winter.
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100% The losing didn't help, either. Was the 2004 team all torn up over the Nomar trade?
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I'm all for... LF Verdugo CF Kike RF Nimmo 4th Refsnyder
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9/29 Red Sox and O's for the last time in '22
moonslav59 replied to vegasbob's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
What amazes me about Casas is, that as a rookie, he's not getting a lot of close Ball-Strike calls in his favor, but he still has a great BB%. That's my "eye test," and I could be wrong. -
9/29 Red Sox and O's for the last time in '22
moonslav59 replied to vegasbob's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
My eye test has bee3n wrong, before, too. Many times it is right, as yours are, too. When you don't watch every play, or maybe don't pay close attention to the point being debated, one can make false assumptions. The biggest area for this is when comparing players to others we rarely see play. -
9/29 Red Sox and O's for the last time in '22
moonslav59 replied to vegasbob's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
That's not my goal or even desire. I exposed an example where someone's "eye test" was clearly wrong. I'm sorry, if facts and data can prove what is right or wrong, in some cases. This was a clear example how eyes can be very deceiving- and not to just one person, but to all of us, myself included. -
No. My point was the exact and total opposite. I do think there was clearly some rancor, but not enough to keep players from putting their trust in the Sox brass to not do to them what Bloom apparently did to Vaz, and wanting to stay with the Sox- bad clubhouse and all- a "team with players that "have no desire" and all- a team with a manager who mismanages his players to make them worse than they truly are. I could go on and on.
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Sounds like Jad is saying just that. He can correct me, if I'm wrong. When I said bringing back Bogey will not make us better- just maybe staying the same at a higher cost- as I recall, you jumped down my throat, assuming I meant we'd be better without him.
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You guys sure played the rancor up, a lot more than you now seem to fell it matters. Some went so far as to say, "Nobody will want to play here," after the way they traded Vaz without telling him.
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IMO, Pham, who may not even be offered the $6M option, and Cordero have to earn the right to supplant Ref as the current 3rd or 4th OF'er- likely 4th after we add a RF'er. He's not "pencilled in," as in locked into a slot, but the 4th OF'er slot is his to lose, IMO.
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You inferred I said you did say those were the only two choices. I did not. Your point was you thought he does not have a lock on an opening day 26 slot, and he may not. His sucess may very well not "carry over," but I think he will be given a chance to prove he does not belong byond ST'ing. Being better than Pham and a RH'd bat works in his favor. If we add a RF'er, like I think we will, he still has the inside track at the 4th OF'er slot over Pham (at $6M) and Cordero. I'm not sure how bad he'd have to be in ST'ing to lose a shot at the opening day roster.
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Under Henry, there is a long history of making an offer to a star who is nearing free agency, and then not budging or barely budging from that first offer. Many of the departing stars went on to decline, pretty quickly. Others did well, but often their replacements did just as well or better for a lower cost. DLowe Nomar Pedro Damon Beckett/AGon/CC Papelbon Ellsbury Lester Lackey Kimbrel & Kelly Porcello Betts & Price Workman ERod (Manny was a special case.) Others not so entrenched in Sox lore or not mega stars: Nixon Mueller Beltre A Miller Doubront Vic JBJ (then brought him back!) Moreland Beni Some they might have wished they traded before their declines or not brought back: Foulke Lowell (just one bad last year) Lugo Youk JD Drew Pearce Sale
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I guess the rancor did not rise to the level of making Bogey and Hill not want to return, right? My guess is JD and Wacha will soon say they want to return, too.
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It kind of baffles me how many people want to bring back the exact same team we just watch implode in 2022. Some would get less money, like JD, but giving a hefty raise to Wacha, which I would do, $1M more to Nate and a $6M raise to Bogey, plus a hefty arb raise to devers, means we likely don't re-set and have nothing left over to make additions in RF and the pen. Plus, as you point out, we will, once again, rely on much better health from a group of SP'ers that have very poor health histories.
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The pandemic is about all that "computes," IMO.
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The pandemic reduced many players' pay. The future of the economy and life, itself was largely unknown. Of course, it's just speculation, but IMO, the Dodgers would have offered a little more had their been no pandemic and blue skies were on the horizon. It's also speculation to say $365M was the most he could ever get.
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Bogey & Wacha.
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Not expecting it to carry over and not giving him a chance next year are not the only 2 choices. Not counting on him to start is a good plan. Counting on him to make platoon in RF or LF or DH would be a reasonable plan, as long as you plan for the chance he returns back into a pumpkin. He would have to really suck in ST'ing, or get hurt, to not make the opening day roster. Whether he stays there long, is more debatable. Others have said similar things about Schreiber, and with the volatility of fringe RP'ers being so high, I could certainly see him not staying on the 26 all 2023, but for now, he's got a slot and has to work his way off it. He'll make the opening day 26, too.
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Maybe not closer to $400M but likely more than $365M. Yes.
