moonslav59

One thing I find puzzling. You seem to rely heavily on what certain players are doing for their team, right now or this year and only this year, but when it came to Kike, last fall. You went out of your way to stress his past as a utility guy with a .240 BA. Why is Bard's past not important, but Kike's was, last year? I'm not trying to bust your balls. I'm just curious why the criteria changes for certain players. To me, Kike has had some very good years in the past 5 seasons. He's had some that were not so nice, but his defense has been steady, and he's been a plus one or more player since 2016. Bard was out of baseball for like 7 years, and sucked, last year. I'm not sure why he is viewed more reliable and highly, by you, than someone like Kike.

Well, you rely so heavily on the here and now, despite evidence that shows that adding guys based on only one good year in the last few years is a losing idea more often than not. I have no evidence based on 2022 to say Barnes is more reliable than Bard, so providing past numbers would just fall on deaf ears. (BTW, I don't think either Barnes or Bard are "reliable" for 2023, but both have significant hopes they can be. I'd be okay with saying maybe Bard has slightly better hopes, but to me, both have similar outlooks going forward.) Agree to disagree and move on.

How many games, this season, were Houck, Whitlock and Schreiber not on the IL or starting? I'd add piggy-backing, too, but technically that was pen work. I think the pen was okay to pretty good, when all 3 were in the pen. Giving all three clearly defined pen roles in 2023 and then sticking to the plan might create a very nice scenario, but this is assuming good health. I think we need to add a solid RP'er (closer or set up.) I'd like to add 2, but I'm not sure JH will allow a big enough budget to fill all our needs adequately, so we may need to settle on one really solid one or try something like Diekman & Strahm again, hopefully with better luck. I'd also like to add that with those 3, plus an additional solid Rp'er added, the rest of the pen should be okay in lesser roles than they were thrown into in 2022. I still have some hopes that... Barnes can return to his 2017-2020 norm Taylor can return from his injury Crawford, Wink or Seabold can fill a long/low leverage relief role German, Kelly or Danish can provide a plus as relief depth or possibly more. I have little faith in Ort, Bazardo, DHern and a few others, and no faith in Brasier, but maybe one can surprise us, or someone like Mata, Ward, Walter, Murphy or Santos can rise up and fill a key role as our 7th or 8th Rp'er. Relief Aces: Whitlock Houck Solid Set-up Schreiber Addition (Lh'd?) Key Roles Barnes Taylor The last 2 in the pen Crawford German Possibles Kelly, Danish, Wink, Seabold, Bazardo, Mata, Ward, Walter, Murphy, Santos, Ort, Brasiery, Politi

Yes, he was, but how much hope would you have for him, next year, with the Sox? There is a reason he was not on your list.

That's nearly a third of the 2022 player tax line budget. Add $22M for a 0.7 bWAR from JD and $9M for a -0.1 bWAR for Barnes and we're looking at about $100M for 1.6 WAR. That's close to half the player salary budget!

It's good to see you made an actual named suggestion. I do not think Bard is any more reliable than Barnes, and way less than Whitlock and Houck, despite their injury issues. I'd also put Schreiber ahead of Bard, but both have questionable futures.

This team has been bad- no doubt, at least when compared to top teams like the AL East is stacked with plus Houston. I guess I don't see what any tiny bit of optimism needs to be squashed, immediately and thoroughly. Did anyone really expect the farm system to be fully re-stocked in a year? Worse, does anyone think a re built farm should start infusing players onto the b ig club year one? We are now seeing the results of the farm built 3-6 years ago. Houck, Dalbec, Crawford, and recently Bello. Whitlock, Wink and recently German are the first Bloom "prospects" to come into the bigs, and they had to be acquired by trade or Rule 5 to get here so quickly. Years of low draft picks, penalties due to cheating and trading away a large chunk of the farm has come full circle. Expecting miracles is not realistic. Some seem to think the solution is to repeat the cycle, again. Trade promising prospects to get back to the glory days of 2026-2018. Some think JH has to just change his formula, which has brought us more rings than any point in Sox history over the last 100 years. All he has to do is spend more- maybe way more. Some think some sort of combination is needed, or that Bloom has to hit on 80-90% of his expenditures and additions, something I'm thinking no GM has ever done. This team is bad. There is no sugar coating that. I've watched the Astros more, this year, than ever before. It's easy to see we are far from their level. That being said, I don't think we are quite as bad as many feel we are or as our record indicates. We play the toughest schedule in MLB and are 18th in W-L%. We are a half game behind MN for 17th and 1.5 behind SFG for 16th. We are 3.5 games behind being in the top half of the league (CWS.) That's really not horrific, but it's scary when you figure we are on the cusp of losing some key players from those glory years: Bogey, Nate, JD and possibly Devers, the following season. I'm frustrated, too. I'm disappointed, too. I had much higher hopes for this team than they showed us. The massive injuries in key areas, like pitching, CF and 2B, seemingly all at once, taxed a system not yet deep enough to handle that strain. I still expected better, and I was probably unrealistic, too. Many of us were fooled by 2021's promise. We took that team and added Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm and Hill, but somehow got worse. The JBJ trade hurt like hell, and to some, outweighed the gains by Wacha and the others I just listed. I hated the deal from the first second it was done. Many did. More mistakes were made than just that one, and Bloom and Cora deserve to be called out on each and every one. There is a lengthy list of grievances that are worthy of criticism- some more so than others, but in my opinion the main priority Bloom and Cora were given- was to rebuild the system- bottom up, while trying to maintain the perception and reality of being a somewhat competitive team. They failed in 2020, which was certainly understandable, given the budget JH laid on Bloom and Sale & ERod missing the whole season. They failed in 2022, when most of us have been expecting steady improvement from year-to year. Should we have? I think the vast majority of Sox fans, think yes, especially when the budget has been increasing since 2020's low point. I don't disagree, but I also see context is needed. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here are just some of the significant contexts involved: 1. Aging stars in decline, but hard to trade or be given lesser roles. 2. A limited budget weighed down by pre-Bloom heft contracts giving back litte to no returns. 3. A homegrown farm that has given us just Houck, Dalbec and Crawford, since DD departed. A farm that, other than (big) maybe Bello, Mata and German, may not give us much in 2024, either. 4. A spate of injuries that defied anyone's worst expectations, and seemingly, all at once. 5. The rise of divisional foes that outpaced and rise we might have shown, had we been in another division. The O's have proven the are for real. The Jays did not reach expectations, but they have built up, mostly by costly additions, but certainly a lot of home grown talent, that were acquired through the drafts and IFA 3-6 years ago, I might add. They Rays remain the Rays, and the Yanks became a juggernaut for much of the season. 6. Expected continuation or improvements from pre-prime and prime players failed to materialize. Bogey, Devers and Vaz improved or stayed about the same as 2023, but nearly everyone else declined- some by a ton, an d not just because of missed time due to injuries- many sucked when healthy, too. Plawecki was never great on offense, but he dropped over 150 points in OPS *0 from career). Dalbec dropped over 150 points from 2021 and his career mark before '22. JD dropped 100 points from '21 and 150 from his previous 4 yrs w BOS. Dugo dropped 40 points from 2021 and 60 from his previous career mark. The RBI drops by Bogey and JD, when we really needed more, hurt, too. While Cordero & Arroyo may have done better off the bench than before, it wasn't enough. Nate dropped off. Barnes dropped off. Whitlock and Houck did fine, but injuries and other factors negated any gains. Sawamura, Davis and Robles declined so much, they are no longer here. Sale was Sale, again. It was a major confluence of bad luck and bad play that seemed to feed off each other, giving us one of the worst seasons, based on prior expectations since 2019- maybe even more than 2019. I'm not happy at all with the 2022 Sox, but I do think there is reason to be optimistic going forward. The farm looks stronger- much stronger. The 40 man roster is much deeper than 2020 and even 2021. Yes, we lose some key players, but we also lose Price's money and should be able to improve on JD's 2022 numbers with his $22M. It won't be easy to replace the pre-2022 Nate, but $17M should be able to more than replace the 2022 Nate. Replacing Wacha, Bogey and even Hill and Strahm at their contractual levels will be harder and the key to our hopes in 2024. Bringing Bogey back just keeps us even, and maybe for a just a couple more years, before he may start declining. Brining Wacha back will cost way more and may not get us the same 2022 results. It's not going to be an easy off season for Bloom & Co, but he should have a budget nearly double anyone he has had to date (counting the Kike extension.) I'm cautiously optimistic we will reach glory again. Hopefully in 2023 but more likely afterwards.

Only if you choose to blame them for 50. Hill and the defense did worse tonight.

He might for us.

Lower?

I never thought I'd see an OF arm worse than Damon's.

1,000 injuries sometimes forces this, but I agree.

WAR still loves you.

He’s over.700 vRHps. I’d have given him a shot at FT, but waiting forJBJ to improve wash the higher priority.

Those were the 2021 WAR numbers you damn pinko! 🤪

Isn't it strange that Refsnyder has only started 30 games? You might think, "short side of a platoon," but he's started 16 v RHPs and 14 v LHP, despite a massive 300 point swing in his L-R splits. I leave this to Splendid to bash away at Cora.

Even "Mr. Clutch," himself, Big Papi had very similar career number (.931) and career w RISP (.943). Late & Close, he was at .871, but of course his playoff numbers were an astoundingly similar .947. (Not sure what his late & Close playoff numbers were.) Speaking of Papi, a nice trivia question: What was the only season Papi led the league in OPS? His last one: 2016!

Totally false.

My point was not anything related to this example.

Sale was not expected to miss more than a start or two, until April 4th. Look, I'm always for adding more SP'ers. We should have had better depth than we had, but with a limited budget, we'd have had to rob Peter to pay Paul. They misjudged Sale's return date. That sucked. We could have signed another pitcher or traded some future assets to get better SP'ers. I do not think that was part of this year's plan. I don't think it was only Bloom & Cora determining not to go all in, this year. Personally, I did not like many FA SP'ers, last winter. I complained when Bassitt and Manaea seemed to be traded for light returns. I'm not sure if we had what OAK wanted, or if they wanted too much from us, but even if I liked the deal, if the plan was not to trade any top propsects, than our options were severely limited.

Here are all the SP'ers signed over the off season: Story was signed on March 20th. Sale was placed on 60 Day IL on April 4th and was previously believed to be possibly missing a few starts, only. STARTING PITCHERS Max Scherzer (37, 7.2 WAR) -- Signed 3-year deal with NYM (Dec. 1) Kevin Gausman (31, 6.4) -- Signed 5-year deal with TOR (Nov. 30) Carlos Rodón (29, 5.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (March 14) Clayton Kershaw (34, 4.8) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 13) Eduardo Rodriguez (29, 3.8) -- Signed 5-year deal with DET (Nov. 16) Robbie Ray (30, 3.5) -- Signed 5-year deal with SEA (Nov. 30) Zack Greinke (38, 3.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with KC (March 16) Marcus Stroman (30, 3.4) -- Signed 3-year deal with CHC (Dec. 1) Alex Cobb (34, 3.1) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Nov. 30) Anthony DeSclafani (32, 3.0) -- Signed 3-year deal with SF (Nov. 22) Tyler Anderson (32, 2.8) -- Signed 1-deal with LAD (March 18) Jon Gray (30, 2.7) -- Signed 4-year deal with TEX (Dec. 1) Michael Pineda (33, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET (March 19) Alex Wood (31, 2.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Dec. 1) Andrew Heaney (31, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (Nov. 10) Rich Hill (42, 2.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1) Yusei Kikuchi (31, 2.2) -- Signed 3-year deal with TOR (March 14) Danny Duffy (33, 2.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 17) Steven Matz (31, 2.1) -- Signed 4-year deal with STL (Nov. 29) Dylan Bundy (29, 2.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (Dec. 1) Johnny Cueto (36, 2.0) -- Signed MiLB deal with CWS (April 8) Kwang Hyun Kim (33, 1.8) -- Signed with KBO team (March 7) Garrett Richards (34, 1.7) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 20) Brett Anderson (34, 1.5) Corey Kluber (36, 1.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with TB (Dec. 1) Matt Harvey (33, 1.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (April 8) Zach Davies (29, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with ARI (March 24) Matthew Boyd (31, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with SF (March 20) Drew Smyly (33, 1.3) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 19) J.A. Happ (39, 1.1) Michael Wacha (30, 1.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Nov. 27) Martín Pérez (31, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 14) Steven Brault (30, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 22) Trevor Cahill (33, 0.9) Wily Peralta (33, 0.7) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 16) Tommy Milone (35, 0.6) Chris Ellis (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (March 16) José Quintana (33, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with PIT (Nov. 29) Aaron Sanchez (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 16) Vince Velasquez (30, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with CWS (March 14) James Paxton (33, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1) Mike Fiers (37, 0.3) Chi Chi González (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with MIN (March 20) José Ureña (30, 0.3) Jon Lester (38, 0.3) -- Retired Carlos Martínez (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with SF (March 20) Chris Archer (33, 0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (March 28) Aníbal Sánchez (38, 0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 14) Cole Hamels (38, 0.1) Ervin Santana (39, 0.1) Jhoulys Chacín (34, 0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (Nov. 13) Sean Nolin (32, 0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Jan. 8) Justin Verlander (39, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with HOU (Dec. 1) Noah Syndergaard (29, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAA (Nov. 16) Wade LeBlanc (37, 0.0) -- Retired Ivan Nova (35, -0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Dec. 20) Thomas Eshelman (28, -0.1) -- Signed MiLB deal with SD (March 20) Chad Kuhl (29, -0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (March 16) Scott Kazmir (38, -0.2) Matt Moore (33, -0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with TEX (March 14) Jordan Lyles (31, -0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with BAL (March 12) Jake Arrieta (36, -0.2) -- Retired Chase Anderson (34, -0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 14) Tanner Roark (35, -0.7) Matt Shoemaker (35, -0.7) -- Signed with NPB team (Feb. 5) Julio Teheran (31, -0.9) Mike Foltynewicz (30, -1.1) Félix Hernández (36, N/A) Jasseel De La Cruz (25, N/A) -- Signed MiLB deal with ATL (March 13) There were a few pitcher around when we signed Story. I can see arguing we could have signed pitchers not Story, but I don't recall anyone suggesting any one who was signed after April 4th.

Call it what ever you want. There is no doubt, we are better than many teams- some with better records than us. You can doubt that or disagree, but it is not straw grasping.

I've never said mistakes were not made. IMO, we should never have piggy-backed Houck or jerked Houck and Whitlock all over the place. We should have just called up Crawford, Seabold and Wink, earlier- not like that would have worked, but it would have helped the pen. I have no issue using the word malfeasance in this area and others, too. I've never said Bloom and Cora have been perfect. (BTW, you forgot Pivetta as part of the opening day plan that blew up when Sale went on the IL.) We had 5 starters. We thought Sale might miss a few games, but it wasn't until April 4th that we knew he was out for 60+ days. I shouldn't be the only one to do research. I'm asking what other options were out there, and would the cost be reasonable to JF after just signing Story a couple weeks earlier. One could argue, we should have signed a pitcher and not Story, and I'm hardly ever against adding top pitchers.

I was just making that point to say I think our team is better than our schedule and divisional ranking shows. It was meant to imply anything else.

I'm asking you. I don't think many FAs were out there in early April. I could be wrong. I wasn't the one making the point about knowing Sale was out, and why didn't se do something. Tell us what we might have done? You did the same thing with 1Bmen at the end of May. You never named one guy who was available or traded to someone else.