moonslav59

July hopes not March. I also have way more promise in Bello and even Mata than I ever had in Wink, Crawford or Seabold. I also see an improved line-up and vastly improved pen. It's the rotation and SS positions that may drag us down.

I also don't think they do an about face like they did after the Ben era. I think JH feels there needs to be a happy medium, but it has to start with rebuilding the farm and roster depth. People can criticize that plan all they want, but it seems like the most logical plan, although patience is not something easily sold to fans paying the highest ticket prices around, so instead they try to throw enough bones our way to try to keep us happy z(some might say not try hard enough) or fool us, whatever your perspective is.

You know where it's at.

He'd just be a capable one year bridge to Mayer.

To me, the line-up looks better than 2022's OPS: .694 C (maybe the same) .683 1B .724 2B .856 SS .815 3B .694 LF .671 CF .661 RF .763 DH (maybe the same)

Best OPS Against (50+ IP and A Ball or better) .495 German .545 Kelly .559 Bello .584 Politi .585 Walter .593 Mata .601 Ward .616 Keller .618 Stock .623 Wikelman .623 Paez .626 de la Rosa .642 Encarnacion .653 Winckowski .656 Seabold .657 Uberstine .661 Webb

Do you think or are pretty sure Bogey would have taken this reported offer had it been made in February or March?

Agreed, and his .623 OPS Against was very nice, despite the 54 BBs in 98 IP.

I’m concerned about that, too, along with Yoshida, Sale and others. Wow, another thing we agree on.

Stop acting like I don't get your point. I know when your offer was suggested. I agree on everything, except that we know he botched it. It can only be viewed as a POSSIBLE botch, if we know BorA$$ would have said yes. Then, we have to see if he earns even $162M, which he should do, but it's not a sure bet..

Where did I say I did not think $162M/6 would have been a bad offer a year ago? Man, even when I agree with you you find ways to get testy. You can ignore DD's role in everything all you want. You rarely even mention he played a small part in where we are today, despite providing a farm that produced just Houck in 5 years and a focus on extendinng Sale and Nate over getting Bogey to extend without an optout of Betts for a few million more. You said $168M and Bloom said $162 and that's a major, pitiful, just pitiful blunder. Plus, we don't even know for sure that offer gets the job done. You get irate when others speculate, but don't seem to realize when you do it.

They changed from Skeeters to Space Cowboys. The stadium in about 10 mins from my house. I've been to 2 games and a couple concerts and other events there.

Then, simply post his away splits. I believe numbers you post. I believe every opinion you post is what you believe is true.

Had ERod done very well, last year, we might be hearing a different story. BTW, fWAR 2017-2019 7.8 Erod 6.2 Porcello 6.2 Price

Agreed, but maybe 12 months earlier even $162M/6 was not something they felt was right. I'm still not sure $162M/6 was low enough to say it was a clear mistake, but I agree, something should have been worked out earlier, including reworking the DD deal whan that was signed, and we should have traded him, if we felt we'd never come close to what he'd take. I'm not sure they ever felt that, but that can be called a "mistake," too. Let's see how Bogey does.

So, that offer was made after other teams started making offers? If so, that seems low, but not like the Lester offer and much better than the initial lowball offer. I felt $180M/7 was about as high as I'd go, so $162M/6 does not seem like a huge mistake, just because he ended up getting $280M/11. His value should be decided by what he does in the next few years, not what one crazy GM decided to shell out. I'm fine with anyone thinking $126M/6 is also a lowball offer, but I don't see it as low enough to throw hissy fits over, if the report is true. BTW, do you have the link on that offer? I'm curious why it has not been mentioned over and over.

See my last post. 1. We know we offered Lester something close to market value after the lowball first offer. We don't with Bogey. 2. I felt Lester was worth our final offer and what the Cubs got him for. I don't think Bogey was worth $225M/8, let alone $280, so that is a huge difference. Let's look at the Erod example. I was a huge ERod supporter and often defender, once he got over his issues of getting past the 4th inning. I wanted us to extend or re-sign him. However, once I saw what he signed for with the Tigers, I felt Bloom made the right call. A few here, wished we'd have kept him, but not many. Nobody talks about him, now. Nobody says we let another good one getaway, now. In hindsight, Bloom made the right choice, but only because it looks like ERod will never come close to earning what he is being paid. How is the Bogey situation different? I heard no offers by the Sox for ERod. I realize ERod is no Bogey, but the mistake will become known after Bogey plays a few more years. yes, our opinions on the mistakes made with Lester turned out right, but had he sucked, there would be zero talk about him now, right? Respectfully, is that different enough?

I hated the Lester fiasco and am fully prepared to hate the Bogey, one, too, once I find out the specifics. One difference: we know the specific last minute offer we made Lester. I'm still of the opinion we never wanted Lester at market prices, and even that last offer was just for show, as they knew full well, he'd turn it down. The same may end up being true for Bogey. One difference, again. We have the results on Lester- post fiasco. We can only speculate on Bogey's post signing results, and another difference is that, let's say we find out we made a final offer close to what SD made (like what happened with Lester and the Cubs), I'd look at that as a mistake for offering maybe $250M/10. I don't think he's worth that, when not playing SS for 8-9 years of the 10. I thought Lester was worth what he got with the Cubs, and hindsight really makes that mistake sink in.

To compare where the 2021 team was at the deadline with the 2022 team is a joke, IMO. It was foresight not hindsight, all along. It was a big mistake to at least not trade JD. It was also a mistake not trading everything not tied down.

I don't know how to access minor league away splits. Enlighten me, and I'll do the footwork. No, I don't pay attention to my hometown minor league team. I didn't know Valdez played for them, until he was traded.

I've agreed it was a mistake to make that initial offer. You seem to have a hard time accepting when I agree with you. To you, nothing else matters about what came about afterwards. If the answer is nothing happened, then I'd agree that's another major strike against Bloom & Co. The problem is, we don't know. I have to think something else was said after that first offer. I'd like to know what it was. Unlike you, I'm not assuming that even a $160M/6 deal would have been a clear winning counteroffer, even if accepted by BorA$$ doubtful, IMO, until we see what Bogey does in the next 6 years. I'm 100% with you on the point about trading him, if we knew we were not going to make a serious run at extending him. I'm not sure how easy it would be under his no-trade status, but we probably could have gotten him to accept a trade. What, specifically, do you disagree with anything I just wrote?

So, it then comes down to what happened next. Did the Sox make a second offer or say they were prepared to go higher, and still got nothing back from BorA$$? Without knowing what happened and didn't happen, isn't it pointless to throw blame on anything beyond what is known- the initial lowball offer?z What if it comes out the Sox told BorA$$ they were willing to offer Bogey something north of what Story got and got no reply? Is it the Sox fault for not making a third or 4th offer despite no demands or frameworks for a deal presented by BorA$$? I'm not saying no: I'm just wondering what the facts are, before I give my opinion on everything after the lowball, initial offer.

I'm not saying there ever was a given demand, which makes the criticism of Bloom not taking it even more absurd. Fine, Blame Bloom for never making a serious counteroffer, although we are not sure that one was never given or discussed. Fine, blame Bloom for not trading Bogey, despite all the times you pointed out his no trade status. I'm all set to through plenty of blame at Bloom, if I know what he can be blamed for. Without knowing the number it would have taken to extend Bogey, the blame game on that point, alone, should be on hold. Other points are fair game, and I've agreed the lowball $30M 1 year addition was a mistake.

It is important to know what BorA$$'s demand was. If there never was one, it's hard to blame Bloom for never meeting a fictional number. Let's assume Bloom did or should have countered with $160M/6. Unless we know what BorA$$'s counter offer would have been, I find it hard to blame Bloom for not taking it, or not offering "what it would have taken," if we don't have that number. I get it. We may never know what that meeting point may have been, because the talks never progressed beyond that first offer, but if find it hard to believe no framework was ever presented by BorA$S or that the Sox never asked him what they felt it would take. If that proves to be true, I'm all on board with calling that a mistake, in itself, but I will never give my opinion about "we should have signed him," until I know the numb er it would have taken. It seems senseless to claim we should have done anything without knowing what that anything was. No doubt, serious mistakes might have been made and probably were, but maybe not on the amount we coulda, shoulda signed him for. No matter what that number was, we won't know until 6-18 years from now. We can give our opinions, like we did on ERod, and see later, if we were right or wrong.

What was it and provide a link.