moonslav59

I agree. The narrative over this seems contrived and misdirected, but that's not surprising. We don't know what the medical reports said, and we can assume many different things. I'm pretty sure the reports did not say he would need surgery or was at a major risk of needing it, shortly. If that was true, it would mean they felt he was worth something like $140M/5 not $140M/6. You are right, he went the end of last season and the whole 2022 season without any signs of elbow issues or discomfort. Maybe he's the only one who knows about the term discomfort, if he never told anyone he had it. Again, it always seems to come down to the "blame game." We have this incessant need to assign blame when anything goes wrong, and finding one guy to blame makes everything much neater and provides some sort of closure or whatever. I'm not saying I never assign blame, or that finding out who was responsible for something going wrong isn't a necessary step towards making sure the problem is not repeated, again, but really, in this case, who is to blame and why? Maybe 99% of doctors would have given the same report Bloom & Co. got. B ecause Story got hurt, were the doctors wrong? To me, it's no so black and white. Maybe most GM would read what ever report Bloom was handed and would decide not to sign Story based on his injury risk. Maybe not signing him had more to do with the money sought or as you pointed out, the Coors factor and the unknowns on how his skills would transfer to another home park. Was Bloom's mistake not to heed the injury risks pointed out by the docs or the money, years and Coors factor, or the fact that we already had a SS and were trying to keep him happy and wanting to stay in Boston? Did Bloom even have the final say? Was Bloom trying to convince JH to sign or not sign Story or vice versa? Before I assign blame or majority blame, I'd need to know a lot more than I know, now, and I may never know what needs to be know to assign final blame percentages. (My guess is my assignment of blame would likely differ from others, even if we had all the facts.)

It's not just who we lost, it's what we got at other positions and who we have at areas of need. Nobody looks and say, "We need to replace JBJ in RF," but we needed a RF'er more than a DH, and we ended up getting Dugo there. All of a sudden, defense doesn't matter in RF? We gave up Renfroe over this same issue! 2021 OPS by position: .661 RF (We had Ref and Duran on the Nov depth chart, here) .671 CF (presumably, Kike was the solution for 2023.) .683 1B (presumably, Casas was the solution w Dalbec in reserve) .694 C (not a high offensive priority with the Sox.) .694 LF (Dugo at .732 was going to play LF FT, before the Yoshida signing) Yes, I agree that we needed a big b oost on offense, but my point is about the positions we chose to boost. We have Devers at 3B. We have Casas and Dalbec at 1B- not sure bets, but better than Duran and Ref in RF or Arroyo needing to play middle IF. We had several rotating DH options from Dalbec, Arroyo, Dugo or Ref and maybe EValdez that, to me, looked like better options than we had in RF & SS. I get that there were not many FA options in RF. Nimmo was way overpaid, and I'm not saying he'd have been a better signing than Yoshida, but to me the positional priority list was out of whack. I get yours and notin's points, but to me, this was a mistake. Forcing Dugo to RF is a mistake. The Turner signing by itself is not upsetting, and like I said, if we add a decent SS on now 2Bman or CF'er/RF'er, it will no longer be an issue. I'm just saying, as of right now, our priority list looks out of whack.

LF, 3B and 1B were not our high need areas for 2023, 2024 or beyond. DH was a need, but it should never be a top need, unless you are a stacked team to begin with. Your point about SS is a good one. To pay big for a SS would have meant large and LONG, and we don't need LONG. We may still fill that short term need, yet, and that part of my position takes a major hit. That being said, I still think spending so much 2023 AAV and extended financial commitments on 2 guys that should be DHs and as secondary positions play LF, 1B and 3B is not what we needed most, now or in 2024 and beyond. We look all set at 3B and 1B. I've been crying about us having 3 LF'er in our OF for a couple years, now, and that was before we signed Yoshida. I'm excited about Yoshida and Turner's projected offense, and I do think they'll help us a lot. I had hoped we'd trade Dugo and get a real RF'er, and that would have made the Yoshida signing more understandable. Dugo has 2 more years of team control, so we needed a LF'er for 2025>>> not 2023 and 2024. Casas is somewhat of a question mark, so maybe having Turner might help at 1B, if we need him there. My point is, simply put, I wish we'd spent more on a solid SP'er, even if by trade, SS and RF than DH/LF/1B/3B. Do you disagree, in theory.?

Yes, but during the whole season, you had less than previous seasons. 2019-2020 were horrific. Judge, Stanton, Sevy...

Doctors rarely say "never" or "definitely" anything. Most likely, they told Story and the Sox management that he might need surgery, one day, but that rest and rehab should work. It's not like rest and rehab never work, especially for non pitchers. Maybe the risk of surgery and lost time was a factor in our $140M/6 offer. Maybe it would have been $165M/6 had the docs said there is zero added risk due to any pre-existing conditions. I kinda thought $140M/6 was on the low side, but I was unaware of the lingering arm issue, until after the signing. $325M/10 Seager $175M/7 Semien (We were linked to his name, last winter) $140M/6 Baez $105M/3 Correa w opt out I liked Baez, especially his defense, but he had a much shorter history of good offense than Story and had these career numbers before signing (162 game avg): .265 28 87 (179 Ks in 612 PAs) .307 OBP .477 SLG .783 OPS Story .272 34 98 (188 Ks in 681 PAs- a slightly lower K% than Baez.) .340 OBP .523 SLG .863 OPS Defense 3.5 Baez UZR/150 and 49 DRS in 3650 innings (better rate) 2.8 Story UZR/150 and 69 DRS in 6300 innings

Do we need a LF'er, 1Bman and 3Bman in 2024 or beyond? Devers is locked up forevers. Casas has 6 years. DH is the easiest slot to fill. Even going by just AAV, the percent is still way too high on positions far down my top priority list. 18 Yoshida (it would be 21, if the $15M posting fee was divided by 5 and added) 16 Jansen 11 Turner 10 Kluber 10 Kike 7.5 Martin 2.0 Rodriguez Either way you slice and dice it, 2 of our top 5 signings were at positions of low priority needs. $29M AAV out of $74.5, which is nearly 40% of the AAV spent. If you count the posting fee of $3M x 5 years, it's over 40%. To me, and this is just my opinion, our top needs were: Urgent 1. SS 2. Closer 3. SP #1 or #2 Semi Urgent 4. RF 5. RP 2/3 6. SP 3/4 Secondary Needs 7. DH 8. RP 4/5 9. C LF, 3B and 1B were near the bottom of my list. Were they high on your list? I can see DH being higher than #7, but in no way was LF/DH a top 5 need. We made it our number 1 signing. We made DH/3B/1B our 3rd highest signing. How is this not an issue worthy of criticism or even harsh criticism?

I'm trying hard to not stir the pot. I'll only say I was chided for calling him a playoff hero. BTW, he was also a major factor getting us into the playoffs. He hit .809 after April 17th and .874 over his final 80 games of 2021 (363 PAs). His per 162 game average after June 19th was... .267 30 89 (79 XBHs and 107 Runs) 89 RBI was not bad for a lead off hitter. The team went 50-42 in that stretch as many other player struggled at the plate. Kike hit .897 in the last 13 games, when the Sox needed every win and went 8-5. Maybe "hero" is too strong a word, but he was an essential player in us making the playoffs and going as far as we did once in the playoffs.

Almost every team, every year, uses over 40 players in a season. To think caring about #38, #39 and #40 is not important is a losing strategy. One big reason we sucked in 2020 was that our bottom 10-12 sucked. In 2020, 19 players got a PA and 30 pitched to at least one batter. In our one good season under Bloom, we saw 23 non pitchers get up to bat and 34 pitchers throw a pitch (not counting the 3 everyday players who pitched.) That's 57 different players. So, #38-40 out of 57 are not important?

He also signed Kike, who had one of the best playoff seasons in Red Sox history. .408 BA .423 OBP .837 SLG 1.260 OPS 49 AB in 11 games 5 HRs 4 2Bs 1 3B 9 RBI 9 Runs scored I won't call him a "playoff hero," anymore. Apparently, that is only allowed for players on teams that win rings.

So, we'll get #25 and no other top 50's. Hmmm...

Agreed. Red Flags existed with the 4 year Nate extension, too, but to a large extent, he earned his $68M/4. I don't think there were any red flags on Price, other than his age, and that signing was "wrong," too, although one could argue he helped us win a ring. One could also argue, we could have won without him, especially if we spent his $31M x 7 wisely. HRam and Pablo? HRam had health issues prior to the signing, and Pablo had weight issues to worry about. The Porcello 4 year extension had no red flags, and he remained healthy all 4 years. All 4 years were within prime (ages 27-30,) and he did great one year, okay another and not so good inn 2 others, except to give 30+ GS'd and 175+ IP, every year. It's hard to determine whether our high risk signings did any worse than those with no or few red flags, at the time of the signings. All longer term signings are risky. Of course, the Sale and Story signings had known risks, up front, but I think those risks were factored into the contract total amount given to Sale, Stroy, Nate and HRam. Age is also a factor in many signings.

I'm sure he's not done, but even if he signs Andrus and trades for Wendle, he still spent the bulk of his winter spending, beyond the Devers extension that begins in 2024 on... 90M/5 on DH/LF Yoshida (+$15M posting fee) 32M/2 on a closer Jansen 22M/2 on DH/3B/1B Turner 18M/2 on RP2/3 Martin 10M/1 on SP3/4 Kluber (or $21M/2 w club option) 10M/1 on CF Kike (extended before the winter) 2M/1 Joely (or $6M/2 with club option) $112M spent on DHs with their positions being ones way down on our needs list (LF, 3B/1B.) Not counting the $15M posting fee. $72M spent on high priority areas (Closer, SO, RP, RP, CF) Even if we spend the remaining $23-27M on high need areas (SS, now 2B or OF/P/C), we'll have spent more than half on low priority areas. This, to me, is a major blunder by Bloom & Co., more so than not reaching some imaginary number that would have gotten BorA$$ and Bogey to accept or the Story signing based on faulty or accurate medical reports, which was actually not a "this winter" decision.

The "Bogey Fiasco" was not made the day he signed with the Padres. It was made months or maybe even years earlier, or so it seems.

Abreu got $58.5M/3, which is about between Yoshida and Turner's deals. I think Bloom was looking for a big addition to the offense and Abreu reportedly was his first choice. To me, Yoshida filled that desire more than Turner, but certainly Turner was signed to be the DH, like Abreu would have been. To me, this was one of Bloom's biggest mistakes, and I find it interesting that those who seem to delight in blaming Bloom for everything and anything, raely bring this up. Of all our winter priorities, why was DH number 1? I know we lost JD, but we did have Dalbec, Arroyo, EValdez, Refsnyder and others that seemed more capable than our depth at SS, CF/RF, SP1/2, SP3/4, Closer, RP2, RP4, C... Our biggest two signings were DH/LF (Yoshida) and DH/3B/1B (Turner). Yes, we filled the closer and pen slots well enough. Yes, we ended up signing a decent 3/4 SP'er, but why 2 DHs over a SS, CF/RF and SP1/2? We had a LF'er (Dugo.) We had a 3Bman (Devers) and 1Bman (Casas). We signed two guys best served at DH or LF/3B/1B. Talk about head scratching.

My guess is some doctor, at some point, might have said, "You may need surgery, one day." I guess there is a chance one or more doctors might have said, "I recommend surgery, now," but also offered other plausible options. I doubt a doctor said, "You need surgery, now," (before last week, anyway) and Story and the team decided to go against the recommendation. Maybe a second opinion said rest and rehab had a good chance of working. We seem to be going around in circles- caught up in a swirl of what ifs and speculations.

Every team "worries" about the bottom of their 40 man roster. It is often where their stars of the future are hanging out. Winning and losing teams pay an enormous amount of attention to those 38th, 39th and 40th slots.

He's a career +4.5 UZR/150, but has been up and down over the last 4 years. He's +69 in DRS, career, but just +1 over the last 3 years, combined. That's not bad.

I'd trade Dalbec or Duran for Crawford plus maybe $2-3M. I mentioned Crawford, because he'd be one year vs Andrus 2-3, and he would cost anything in return- other than someone close to DFA level, anyway. He's just one SS of many out there. You mentioned DeJong, who has 3 years left. There is also Mateo, Mondesi and a couple others being dangled.

I hate to ask for clarification, but what were some of the "3rd options" that have failed, before, and what makes them 3rd, as opposed to second options? I'm not trying to bust your balls or overanalyze, but I'm curious about this "signature 3rd option in the fork in the road" comment. I'm pretty sure he and many GMs have had to settle on 3rd, 4th and even lower options, but what makes this "signature." If reports are true that Abreu was our first winter option, I'm glad we got our 2nd, 3rd or more choice, assuming it was Yoshida. But, that's just me.

Now that Correa is actually signed, the SS options are not that great or plentiful on the FA market (Andrus, Iggy, Simmons,) but there seem to be a more than 3 SSs on the trading block. I think it's a matter of several teams looking at trade options while telling the Andrus camp to not sign, quickly, until they explore other options. He is going to sign, somewhere and will likely get more than what anyone projected. I'd love to see us get him, even if for 3 years. We could trade him once Mayer wins the job. However, a trade might be the better option, anyway. We could possibly trade for a guy like BCrawford, who is owed $16M/1. We probably could get him for Dalbec or maybe Duran or Murphy. We'd still be under the tax line enough to get a pitcher or 2Bman, now or at the deadline.

Maybe someone did tell him surgery was an option, or even that "someday, you will need surgery, if you keep playing 2B or SS." I doubt someone said, "You should have surgery now," or "I recommend you have surgery, now," but who knows. Even if that was said, at any time, the doc might also have added, "Rest and rehab may work, too." There are so many unknowns in this situation, it's hard to form an opinion. That's not to say, we can't conclude we made the wrong choice by signing him, unless you think he's worth $140M/5, which in today's market, he may still come close to that in production, over the last 4 years of the deal- doubtful, but possible, maybe.

How many non pitchers have some degree of damage in their elbow and rest and rehab works? I know it depends on the extent of damage, which may or may not be known precisely and what position the guy plays, like SS v 1B, but my guess is there are dozens and dozens of MLB players who have gotten bye without surgery. Correct me, if I am wrong. Again, I'm not saying mistakes weren't made or that the blame should not be focused on just one or maybe two guys, but it's not a clear issue, at least right now. We may or may not find out details, later that focus more of the blame on one guy over another (or more,) but right know, we can only assume. I do think it's safe to assume Story, Bloom, JH, top brass and the team medical staff knew there was an issue and a risk. They made the wrong choice based on accurate or faulty information. We don't know, if there were factions within those who made the call that swayed the decision to sign Story, or who was in opposing factions, if there were some. They may have all known the risk, but thought he was worth it. Hell, for all we know, they may have decided that even if he missed a year, he was worth about $140M/5, too. It's not a simple process or decision. On the Sale signing, I do think they expected he might miss a full season and would still have been worth $145M/4, too. That's just my opinion, and it looks like Sale's deal might end being more like $145M/ 1.5 or $145M/2.

Yes, that was precisely "not so bad." Make a list of the players out hurt in 2021 and previous years. Plus, you traded for two guys on the list.

I'd feel better with Arroyo, EValdez and even Bobby Dee at 2B than Duran in CF. We could also sign Andrus and trade for Wendle. It can't be about the money with Andrus. It must be he wants 3 years or 2 with a hefty 3rd year option buy out. I'd say give it to him, just don't have a no trade clause.

What could be the cover-up? The docs said, "Major injury risk," and Bloom ignored them? The docs said "moderate injury risk." and Bloom took the chance and now doesn't want people to know it was all on him? Is the cover-up about top brass meetings where Bloom went to the mat defending taking the risk and had to convince JH and others the risk-reward was worth it? Who know? Maybe something like this did happen. I'm not sure why following the law and not discussing medical information with the public "sounds like a cover up." Somehow the info got out on why Correa's contracts were not finalized, so maybe we'll hear more about Story's situation, at some point. I know some are dying to find out it was all or mostly Bloom's fault, and when your the GM, that's the way it works, and often, it is the GMs fault or mostly his, but as of now, it's kind of speculative.