moonslav59

I agree Yoshida is better as a DH, but Turner seems like he's the heart and soul of this team.

I’m not sure why some pitchers do better with one guy over another. My guess is comfort level, ease of communication and trust have roles is the answer. For all I know, it could be something seemingly minor like how a catcher crouches or sets a target. Maybe first impression was good or bad, and that helped set a confidence level. I’d like to know the specific reasons, but I don’t need to know them to believe catchers make a significant difference.

Going just by bWAR: the major Bloom trades, not counting financial costs: (Only controlled years counted) 8.2 Verdugo (3.5 years w 1.5 to go) 2.1 Wong (112 gms in 3 yrs with several years more to go) -0.6 Downs (not on team, anymore) for 3.6 Betts (1 yr 2020) 1.4 Price (3 yrs- 2 played) _________________________ 0.7 Winckowski (2 yrs with many more to go) -0.8 Cordero (no longer on team) (GGambrell and L de la Rosa TBD) for 5.1 Benintendi (2 yrs) ________________________ 2.7 Renfroe (2022) for -0.4 JBJ (2022) ________________________ -0.2 Workman (rental) -0.6 Hembree (rental) for 6.9 Pivetta (1+ Yrs remaining) -1.0 Seabold (2 yrs) _______________________ ??? Aldo Ramirez for 1.4 Schwarber (rental) _____________________ Nothing for 0.2 Ottavino (2021) Am I missing any big trades?

How much it matters is not likely up to 1.80 ERA differentials we see in some cases, and it is impossible to quantify, but it is real. I’m convinced 99% of managers and pitchers would tell us certain catchers make a difference. They may not bad mouth some catchers, but read between the lines when hearing them praise Leon, Plawecki, VTek and a few others.

True, but don’t let the Aldo Ramirez types keep you from adding guys like Schwarber.

DH is different.

If it took giving him a two year deal, I’d consider paying that extra.

The fact that several pitchers insist on one catcher, and managers often set up specific tandems is enough proof to me that it matters.

I didn’t say extend him for 4 years. Don’t undervalue his influence and impact on this team.

Maybe we can get him to extend.

I went year by year with every major IP pitcher. I provided them numerous times, and the vast majority favoured Vaz’s back-up, even if many were small or unbalanced sample sizes

I’m not sure what you mean by not accounting for all those factors. It’s pitcher by pitcher with each catcher. For the most part, the defenses are the same, parks even out, as do other factors. All stats can be asked the same questions. To me, it’s telling that the top 5 pitchers in IP all did better with “the other guy,” some by leaps and bounds. Yes, some are small or unbalanced, but when do many all point in one direction, it means something, even if not easily quantified.

I’m fine with what Bloom has done, overall. I also think he’s doing or trying to do what he was told to do. The budget and lack of farm infusion made his big club building extremely difficult. I like the direction we seem to be headed in. A lot is still to be determined, but the efforts are there.

CERA and OPS Against don't need defining. They are what they are. To me, the issues are how the numbers are used, and why some big differentials exist. Since many pitchers pitch almost exclusively to one catcher, which to me proves it makes a difference to the pitcher and manager who makes that call, so it's hard to count those pitchers who pitch 180 innings with one guy and 9 with the other. Looking at overall CERA numbers does not factor in who catches who way more and way less. It's next to useless, and this is why many poo-poo the stat. It's not like BA or OPS or ERA. You have to look at each pitcher individually, and this creates new problems, like unbalanced or small sample sizes. You look at the numbers with each catcher and then compare the overall results. To me, the results were highly conclusive. Almost every pitcher, with large enough sample sizes with 2 or more catchers, did better with catchers not names Vaz and Swihart, of late. Some of the differentials were staggering. To just chalk it up as luck, or to throw the whole idea out, just because the reasons can't be pin-pointed, to me, is being short-sighted. I've provided research many times, even going back to VTek vs his back-ups. I even did one on Posada vs his back-ups that showed that despite his great hitting, pitchers did better with his back-ups and the team often had a better winning % without him. I'm 100% convinced a catcher may make a big difference, beyond his hitting, throwing, framing and blocking skills. I can't say why, but that does not mean it's not real. It's best to go season by season/ pitcher by pitcher, but these career numbers are shocking: Sale 2.52 AJ Pierz. (226- most with CWS) 2.79 w Leon (436 Innings) 2.87 w Wong (47) 4.08 w Vaz (132) Price 2.96 Leon (204) 4.27 Vaz (360) Porcello (not a big swing) 4.19 Leon (576) 4.93 Swi (122) 4.96 Vaz (211) Nate 3.39 Plawecki (183) 4.64 Vaz (176) 4.90 Leon (61) kinda small sample Only ERod didn't seem to care who was catching: 4.05 Leon (118) 4.18 Vaz (614) 4.44 Swi (75) But Vaz was almost his exclusive catcher. These are not cherry-picked pitchers. These are the Sox leading IP pitchers since 2014- Vaz's first year in MLB.

Giolito is off the boards, and is an example of how a very good rental SP'er might cost a top Sox prospect, according to what values BTV had on the two prospects headed to CWS. That trade also shows how deals can get done ahead of the wire. (We need a starter before the deadline day.)

STL CHC KCR OAK CWS and maybe a few others.

Indeed. I'm glad they chose Reyes and Duvall over Kike. (We don't need CF defense, like we thought we did, before Duran morphed from "Butterfly Man" to "Moth Man."

They are better unhealthy, too.

He did look as promising as Bello, early on.

I wouldn't say I'm worrying. I am one of the few who have not given up hope on Dalbec. He showed, in some pretty long stretches, that he can hit well enough to be a plus. His D at 1B was frightening and surprising. His splits point to him possibly being a good platoon DH, but who wants to take up a roster spot for that. If he could hit both lefties and righties, or become an average defender at some position, he'd have a much easier path. I do think he can hit 30-40 HRs, if given the chance. I just don't see that happening with us. I'm okay with trading him for the best offer, even if it is no better than what we got for Northcut or Moreland.

If it wasn’t Bllom at GM and their repeated talk of building on the future, I’d say there is a zero chance Duvall is traded. I still think the odds are low, especially after trading away Kike, who still had CF value. I see it this way, we have greater needs than OF. Other teams have a great need in the OF. That is often enough to start talking trade. I could see a 3 way deal where we trade Duvall to one team, a prospect to another, and we get a SPer back. The third team throws another prospect to the team giving us a decent pitcher. Our step up in pitching ends up being greater than our step down in OF and OF depth.

We just traded the great Kike! Whatchutalkinbout?

I think a lot of game calling is done from the dugout, but there is factor that is not only impossible to really quantify, but also hard to even name. I’m thinking comfort level, binky, confidence builder, calm downer and on and on. It might not really even be a “skill” and could be based on something seemingly unreasonable- like maybe a pitcher just clicked with one catcher over the other. It could be how a catcher sets a target or his posture- something weird like that.

Neither shocks me.

Agreed. If Turner bolts, this winter, Bobby D might have more value to us, but we may need that roster slot for Rule 5s and signings. We may just have to take the best offer and hope he doesn’t hit 40 HRs for the Rays.