moonslav59

Yes. They had him as a net -0.1 with HOU after the trade. I have never said he was poor in the areas they measure. He was a plus hitter compared to most catchers, more times than not. I think he was a net plus and never argued to replace, bench or trade him. I criticise one aspect of his skill set, and that it it. I happen to think it knocks him down a peg or two from where many Sox fans seem to have him, but he was a plus for us. He seemed to have alternating very good years with okay to meh years. He was getting older. No slight on our ex Sox players, but I’m glad we have Wong over Vaz and McGuire over Plawecki.

Some were huge, year after year. Others were moderate. Others were small, but almost all went the other way with the major SPers. Sale Price Nate Porcello I think ERod was the only one close, out of all the major SPers.

Duvall is a damn good player.

If he didn’t have that very nice 8-9 game stretch, I’d be done with Sale, but yes, they are toying with us!

Year after year is not luck.

Very true, but Paxton helped get us here. I’d add to the rotation, but if we don’t, I can see why one might think we have little chance at top glory and should trade him. I hope we add Stroman and Snell. If we add nobody, I might end up wishing we had sold on Paxton. I know, sounds pretty wishy washy but I hate this halfway crap.

Let’s just ignore that most pitchers did better with Plawecki and Leon.

Thanks! ☝️

Dealing Kine was the right move, despite his flex advantage over Duvall. We may still end up trading Duvall, too, especially since Duran is doing so well, and Ref keeps raking lefties. I hope that will be the extent of the “selling.” Time to BUY!

Third time. I’ve retracted 2019 alone. I still think if you take the whole time period from 2019 to this spring in totality, tge lack of farm infusion is the biggest of several factors.

Look at BAl, ATL TBR and HOU. How many homegrown regulars do they have? True, the worst and cheapest teams might have over 20, but I like their models best.

Looking at the money Bloom had to spend and all the holes he needed to fill, I’m not even sure Bloom underperformed, let alone to the point where it became the dominant factor in the team’s decline. We tend to remember the bad ones more, and his biggest signings have been among the worst, but he also added or signed a lot of players that performed above expectations or pay scale. I’m fine with anyone saying the net influence was negative, but to me not enough to pass declining vet production or lack of farm infusion. It is possible to win without constant farm infusion. The 2004 team was mostly non homegrown, but Theo realised the importance of needing a strong and deep farm. He made it happen.

I’m not talking stars. I’m talking decent regulars like JBJ, Nixon, Vazquez, Barnes, and so many others. We got nobody better than Houck, who has been far from reliable or regular from the summer of ‘17 Devers call-up to the trio of prospects helping us in the spring and summer of ‘23. Devers helped in 2018 and beyond, but the lack of farm infusion took a mighty toll on the roster. Most winning rosters have several contributing low cost players on the 26, and this allows more targeted spending on fewer needs. A GM with a winter spending budget if $50M, but with just 3 slots to fill has a better chance at success than one with 10-12 holes to fill and the same $50M. That is what Bloom was handed in 2020 and 2021. That changed in March ‘22, but we had nog replaced the departing players with young, low cost players for too long to make much of a difference by signing better players. I swear the signings were better in 22 than 21. No doubt, other factors had major impact. I even named two and suggested there were others. If someone wants to say the tight budgets were 26% of the reason and lack of farm infusion was 24%, then we aren’t far apart.

Perhaps I am. I’m curious why you seem to think it can’t be more important that the other factors taken individually. Biggest factor does not mean 51+% responsible.

I’m saying overall, he did. Vaz sucked on O and was never good on D or CERA things.

I’ve said a couple times that 2019 might not count. I’m still not so sure the 2021 was all that much better than 2022 or maybe 2023. Going by just wins is not my choice. Many vets underperformed in 2022 when compared to 2021. Same with 2019 to 2018. My point is that when looking at the full time period from 2020 to 2022 or from maybe 2019, tge lack of farm infusion was the major culprit out of several contributing factors. With the 2023 Bello, Duran, Casas and Wong, maybe we make the playoffs in 2019 and 2022. Maybe we win it all in 2021. Does not signing Richards and Marwin to a hindsight hero chnge the 2021 team as much as just adding the 3 players I mentioned? Now, figure we should have added 4-5 more by 2021, not just 3. I’m not saying I can scientifically prove this was the biggest factor out of many, but I don’t think my theory is as far-fetched as you seem to think it is.

How much bonus pool money is remaining? Enough for one more signing?

A return in trade would likely be a higher value than the comp pick, but by how much? That difference might be part of the decision making process. Unlike last year, I do not think we should be sellers. I’d be fine with trading Kike, or maybe Duvall, if the return is right, but not Paxton.

He’s like an extra first round pick.

That’s not all that “old.” In fact, racism is a live and well, and making a strong comeback.

Frightening for 2023, yes. Or, some other major player(s) getting hurt.

Kinda like the reverse of 2022, right? The funny part about deadline ‘22 was that one of the biggest gripes was trading Vaz, and by this hindsight judgment you are now talking about, McGuire far outplayed him over the last 2 months. The “returning vets” theme of the anti-fire sale crowd (sound familiar?) fizzled out, and we got nothing upon nothing.

Not the simplest, but perhaps the most important issue out of several issues. After 2019, it snow-balled, as we moved from missing 2 homegrown starters to 3, 5, 6, 9….

I’ve already back peddled on 2019, saying it may not have been “the major reason,” but maybe it still was. Maybe no farm help was 26% of the issue, not spending to replace Kimbrell, Kelly and others was 25%, declining numbers from returning vets was 25% and restgate was 24%. What was the “major reason?” (They also added nobody at the 2019 deadline.) Obviously, not spending much to upgrade the roster via spending since the deadline of 2019 is a major reason for the near steady decline, 2021 notwithstanding. Declining production from returning vets has been a major issue, and this includes some big name players in their primes that did not meet expectations. Not hitting on a large enough percentage of FA signings and trades was another major issue. It’s also the issue that seems to be debated more than any other issue. Personally, I do not think Bloom has done as poorly in this area as many do, because I looked at his budget and counted all the holes that needed filling and lowered my expectations accordingly, but I digress. What have I missed? Have we had more key injuries than most contenders? I’d say maybe, but not by enough to make it a major issue like the one I just listed. Poor manager? Don’t get me started on this. How would you guys order the reasons for this 4 year decline? (Don’t look just at 2019 or 2020 or 2022: take them all in one big lump.) Humor me. I’d rank… 1. lack of farm infusion that actually began in late 2017, and the effects began to be noticed in ‘19. 2. Decline in production from prime and post prime returning vets. 3. Some blunders in signings and trades. To be honest, I’m not even sure the signings and trades amount to a net negative or one that is a “major” issue, if it was one, but I seem to be in a minority on that one.

This is why I would not extend him, but we should ride the horse that got us here.