moonslav59
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Everything posted by moonslav59
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Grissom would have been a top 5-7 prospect, for us, had he not been with ATL and recently graduated. He's done okay in over 220 PAs, and should start out at a defensive level that beats our 2B defense of '23. (I'm not sue this becomes anointing or "annoying," as you put it.)
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Most are somewhere in between.
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So far, we'd have a near top pen, if we never had to use Campbell or Joely. (I'm sure many other pens could be in the same boat.)
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I always chuckle when the game threads go off on Cora for bringing in this bum, instead of that one. Many times, the guy the poster wanted brought in was unavailable. Nobody says a peep, when the guy gets outs. Much is in hindsight.
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I agree on Wink. I just thought Cora had changed his role, and so far, he has used Wink less in high leverage than last year, when he led the team in RP'er innings in high leverage situations. My own idea was basically this: Jansen Martin Wink Close to a tie: Slaten, Campbell, Bernardino Weissert, Joely Long man: Anderson I thought Cora would start like this: Jansen Martin Close to a tie: Slaten, Campbell, Weissert, Joely Long men: Wink & Anderson I'm still not sure why this set off a firestorm.
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We added O'Neill and Grissom as starters, and when counting O'Neill in RF, I agree. I do see Grissom as an upgrade on D, at 2B, but nobody knows if he will end up being a plus, there. Cora did end up making Rafaela the starter, which was a plus, on paper. He moved Yoshida to DH and Duran from CF/LF to just LF, mainly. That was a plus. He left the worst 3Bman at 3B, the worst 1Bman at 1B and our catchers, the same. The SS situation is what it is. The subs have been horrible for years. (He did replace Bogey with Story as the starter, but injuries killed that plan.)
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Did you forget the green tint?
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Can Houck be "the stopper," tonight?
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Okay. Then look at it like who was #3 and 4 for "high leverage" on opening day? Maybe I should have worded it that way.
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Pen in high leverage: 2023 (PAs) 124 Wink 93 Martin 92 Jansen (80 Pivetta/ 73 Crawford, but some as SP'ers) 54 Schreiber 36 Bernardino 25 Bleier 18 Llovera 17 Ort So far in 2024 (no split roles, so far): 20 Martin 18 Jansen 16 Campbell 11 Wink 10 Weissert & Joely 5 Slaten
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To me, the focus needed to be on the starters, first, and since we didn't even fill all those roles, adequately, it's understandable some back-up roles were lacking. Certainly, defense was not a key to choosing our subs.
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I was very clear about how I was numbering our RP'ers. I was counting Wink as the long man and was wondering who our 2nd 8th inning guy was on opening day. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand. Disagree, fine, but I think I was clear. Call them "high leverage," instead of 8th inning guys, if it makes you feel better. BTW, I never even said campbell was or should have been the #3, just that many RP'ers were bunched up, and I saw Wink in another role, according to what I felt Cora was going to do with him. This debate has gone on way too long.
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Mayer needs to play a while longer. He would be a plus on D, now, IMO. Anthony and Teel might be the types that can jump to the bigs sooner than Mayer. Of course, I'd rather see all 3 than Reyes/Romy, Wong/McGuire and Rafaela/Abreu, but I also want to see them in their prime more years over watching them spend a year or two adjusting on the fly.
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I was wondering about our back-up 1Bman, all winter.
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I'm not sure how the debate switched to the start or most of ST'ing. I was looking at opening day. Yes, at the start, we had Gio, Schreiber and many of us had Bernardino higher than Cora's 9th slot on an 8 man pen. I'm fine with Wink 3rd, but if he was in another role, was Campbell really viewed much differently than Slaten, Weissert and Joely? (I'm fine with anyone putting him behind all those 3, but it's not a clear choice.) Many times, pitchers are used in other innings, depending on the situation and who is coming up to bat. Campbell looked pretty good with SEA, last year and had about as many IP as Weissert. Joely had way more IP, but he has largely sucked.
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I've said it 3 times. I viewed Wink as our third best RP'er on opening day, but he was inCora's long relief role, which I did not equate to the traditional "8th inning guy." We were talking about who our 2nd 8th inning RP'er was or should have been. Yes, I like Wink, but if he's pitching 2 innings, I don't see that as the clear 8th inning guy. My order would have been similar to MVPs, but with Slaten 4 and Campbell 5, behind Wink at 3, but I thought Cora would not have Wink as the 8th inning guy.
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Terrified!
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Wouldn't you also view Weissert, Joely and Slaten as "typical, boring MR guys," too? We had to move one of them to #3.
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Looks fair. I'd have probably had Campbell ahead of Weissert and maybe Joely. I liked Slaten more. I certainly view and viewed Wink as better, but I did not see him as a traditional 8th inning guy, after they "stretched him out."
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I agree. Let me ask you, and try to not let how badly Campbell has looked change your answer. On opening day, who was our 3rd and 4th RP'ers after Jansen & Martin? I had Wink, but it looked like he was going to be our "long man," which I felt was not really the traditional "eighth inning" type of guy. It's my position that nobody really jumped out as the clear #3 guy. Campbell was pretty close to Slaten, Joely and Weissert. (Anderson was viewed as the other long man.) I think he was the first guy out of the pen, in our first few games, so I don't think Cora viewed him as an 8th inning guy, but my point was that after jansen and Martin, with Wink as the long man, the rest looked pretty bunched up, to me.
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Why has the point shifted to when we traded for him? (BTW, when we traded for him, I felt he was going to be pretty good, and we had no idea who was in the rotation.) I like how you get to set the parameters of every discussion.
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How did you have our RP'ers ordered on opening day? I'm not sure I'd have Campbell 3rd or 4th- maybe 4th or 5th, but I had Wink 3rd, and he was slated to be the long man. I'm not claiming he was our 8th inning guys, but who was, beyond Martin? A few looked pretty close on opening day, and my point was that Campbell could have been viewed as such, just as easily as Slaten or Joely, or...
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They had him listed 4th on their opening day rosters, right behind Slaten, who you poo-poo'd, recently for not having enough Ks. https://www.soxprospects.com/2024SB.htm
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It's also more than EValdez, DHam and about the same as Romy
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Nobody has come close to calling him a savior or great player. Saying the guy should be better than Arroyo/Valdez/Kike/Urias/Reyes is not anointing him as anything more than maybe better than replacement level. He'll likely be an improvement on D. The O is harder to call.
