Maxbialystock

If you would bother to read just this thread, you would have ample evidence of the Swihart fan club, which did in fact attempt to take over a thread about Wright. The beauty of last night's game to me is that it put a huge crimp in the "Swihart should, Swihart must" be our catcher because--I'm speculating here--he's taller and looks nicer than Vazquez/Leon and in 2015 was our starting catcher for half the season and showed tremendous potential as a catcher and as a hitter. Now, the story goes, he is getting the short end of the stick because of our idiotic manager/GM/President. Wright was indeed great last night and hopefully is a permanent replacement for Pomeranz who has stunk this year. And part of that success was the short, dumpy, not so pretty Vazquez, who gave up no passed balls and no wild pitches in 7 innings of catching Wright, whose knuckler was definitely jumping. I say again, Vazquez was masterful doing something Swihart is incapable of doing--see his 16 passed balls while catching Wright in 2015--just as Swihart isn't as good a rightfielder/hitter as Betts, a leftfielder/hitter as Beni, etc, etc.

I too am surprised at how rabid the Swihart fan club is and how angry they are at the FO and, indirectly, at Cora for not playing Swihart more. It's like we're back in the 1930's and the WPA and just finding people work--on a MLB club that only has the best record in MLB. Seriously, folks, what's going on with the Swihart adulation? Keep in mind that the Sox are now 9-4 in games Mookie Betts has missed. That's huge--and a little lucky. And it completely overshadows the trials and tribulations of little orphan Swihartie.

SoxHop going for new record in starting next game thread--good. Three straight wins--even better. ERod looked very good his last time out. He has good stuff and excels when his command is also good.

With just the right catcher of course.

I’m close to,that category and was sure he would not come back. Very happy to be wrong. Finally, with a skilled catcher, he looked pretty darn good tonight with the bonus effect of sending Pom to the outhouse.

Sox now 9-4 without Mookie (including one game when he left after 1 at bat).

It seems to these tired old eyes that Vazquez's catching tonight was pretty close to perfect. Not even a wild pitch, let alone a passed ball. And a shut out so far. Can we, at least for awhile, put to the bed the notion that Swihart should be catching in his place? I mention Swihart because he never could get the hang of catching Wright. I know Swihart is younger, taller, and prettier than Vazquez, but I just don't see him as a regular catcher for this team unless and until Leon or Vazquez is injured.

Context? You want context? How's this for context? Vazquez is twice the defensive catcher Swihart will ever be and you can see it tonight if you bother to watch the game.

Who needs DWAR when we have available to us the collective judgment of the Sox FO, two managers, and two MLB coaching stats, and the Pawtucket coaching staff? All of them appear to have concluded Swihart hasn't got the right skills to be a starting catcher in MLB, which is why he hasn't caught a single game this year despite the hitting struggles of both Leon and Vazquez.

Pax. No one--almost no one--wants to DFA Swihart. I objected to the notion that 2015 demonstrated Swihart was an above average catcher even as a rookie, which does not comport with what we have seen since, especially this year. I thought having him catch Wright, which is a pain, was a good idea.

NESN website says Vazquez is catching tonight and Holt is in RF. No Swihart. Devers at 3B and JBJ in CF.

I got this from nesn-- Beni LF Bogie SS JDM DH Moreland 1B Nunez 2B Holt RF Devers 3B Vazquez C JBJ CF

Doug Mirabelli did a pretty good job catching Wakefield's knuckler, which also was no fun to catch.

That's no good. Nothing left to argue about. Go back to saying he's a great defensive catcher. He caught over 80 games in 2015 and I didn't think he was that bad, especially not for a rookie. But I don't know what the pitchers or the manager thought. One thing is sure right now. With Hanley gone, Swihart is getting a lot more at bats. With Mookie out, he's playing RF too. With Wright pitching, Cora's even letting him catch. I don't know about refining his catching skills, but do know his hitting is very much on display.

I am fine with our current rotation, including Wright but not Pom, for now and for the postseason. Sale, Price, Pom, ERod, and Wright are all capable of shutting down even good lineups, but probably not for 8 or 9 (or maybe 7) innings.

Here's what you either don't understand or refuse to acknowledge. The judgment about catching skills is being made and has been made by the Sox. I am no expert. I did see him struggle with the knucklers in 2015 and appreciated that he did it. What you and MVP78 and other seem to be ignoring is that the front office and the coaching staffs in Boston and at Pawtucket apparently agree he is not a great fit for catcher. At the same time they recognize, as do we, that he is a good athlete and probably a good hitter although that is not a sure thing. Thus he is on the big club and has been the whole season. At the same time, however, he hasn't caught a single game, nor did he in spring training. So why are you mad at me for saying just maybe he ain't that good behind the plate? Thus the cleverness of letting him catch Wright tonight for as long as Wright lasts. he's caught him before. Cora is reluctant to let him catch any of the other starters. He could certainly use the at bats and he just might get a hit or two. And Leon and Vazquez are both probably happy they don't have to catch Wright--the same way Varitek didn't like catching Wakefield. Oh, and Cora gets to see Swihart work behind the plate. At the same time, however, it is hard for any objective observer to say the Sox are grooming Swihart to become a regular catcher. If tonight goes well, I see Swihart catching Wright regularly but otherwise filling in in the outfield or as DH. He also hasn't started at a corner infielder slot.

I'm not the only one misremembering. Two managers, two coaching staffs, and the entire FO have also forgotten what a sterling catcher Swihart is. He has now been in the Sox system for almost 7 years, and they can't see what a gem he is--a sure .900 OPS hitter and one of the best defensive catchers the Sox have ever had if not the best. I mean that 5.9 DWAR says it all. None so blind as those who refuse to see.

Agree passed balls are just one metric and one that can be discounted when catching a knuckleballer. But you continue to deflect the central question: do you seriously believe that a rookie catcher playing in just 83 games can legitimately earn a DWAR of +5.9? Surely you can see the absurdity of that.

Yep.

Actually, that was used on a game thread to explain why we needed JBJ playing--he was far more likely to K than to GIDP and would therefore conserve outs.

His bat was never "so great" and you know it. He was a #1 pick in 2011, so they are hoping it might be pretty good, but so far hard evidence is lacking. As for Swihart catching AAA games last year, maybe they were desperate, i don't know. I do know that he hasn't caught a single inning this year--and I think that includes spring training. Do you still believe that Swihart in his rookie year in 2015 when he had 16 passed balls was in fact six wins (+5.9 DWAR) better defensively than the average MLB catcher? I do think the fact that he is catching Wright tonight is suggestive and that I might be right about the Mirabelli comparison. That is, just maybe one way to keep Swihart in Boston is to say he catches Wright and relieves Vazquez and Leon of that burden. I frankly think Vazquez catches Wright better, but I'll bet he wouldn't mind letting Swihart do it. Nasty work, but Wright has shown this year--to my great surprise--he can be effective.

Fine. Ignore catcher ERA and assume catchers don't make pitchers better. Heck, even moonslav doesn't defend that thesis any more. That still leaves you defending a preposterous number--that Swihart, a rookie catcher with 16 passed balls in 2015 was defensively six wins better than the ordinary MLB catcher that year. It also doesn't match the fact that the Sox since 2015 have tried to convert Swihart to be more versatile--an outfielder, even a corner infielder--rather than have him continue to develop as a catcher.

All due respect--and you have everyone's respect--but I just don't see the depth argument when this team is 8-4 without Mookie, who really is a difference-maker. Moreover, in the final analysis Mr. Ramirez was/is really a DH, and that doesn't help our depth much. As moonslav has pointed out, acquiring JD and keeping Moreland were strong evidence that the Sox were thinking Hanley was expendable before this season started. Granted, the vesting option was a key consideration for acquiring JD and keeping Moreland. The only rationale for keeping Hanley and making that vesting option possible was not that he added depth, but that he brought great hitting--an OPS of .900 or better--and that was never going to happen.

Sure. Meanwhile, however, Pedey is under contract for I think two more years plus we have Holt and Nunez. So I don't see a need for a deal this year.

I might have misread you. If you mean a better hitter than Leon, Vazquez, and JBJ, I can't quarrel with that. I thought you meant the whole team.