Maxbialystock

Betts RF Beni LF JDM DH Moreland 1B Bogie SS Devers 3B Nunez 2B Vazquez C JBJ CF I would prefer Holt at 2B against a right starter, but that's a quibble. No Pawtucket game for Mookie, who must feel the batting cage was enough. Somebody did, anyway.

My suggestion to moonslav is that he change the name of this thread because it's clearly no longer "A Realistic view of 2018" but rather "A Pessimistic bordering despairing Look at 2018" or maybe "A Realistic View of 2018 Sox Hitting Because We All Know Pitching is Unimportant." Despite the gloom and doom on this thread, the Sox still the second best hitting in MLB and should improve when Mookie returns. That is fantastic! But not to TalkSoxers. Nosiree. We prefer to dwell on the failures. And the pitching? With Pom on the DL, the Sox probably have the second best rotation (after Houston) in MLB with Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, and Wright. So I have to ask: why isn't that both a good thing and something to be celebrated?

Bradley is a completely different case--a lot older and a lot more struggles in the past than Devers. We have every reason to doubt JBJ. Devers is 21 and looked pretty good with the Sox last year.

Even the Japanese attack on December 7 wasn't under the brand new radar on Oahu. They were seen and reported but were then disregarded. After the last two seasons, Porcello should be under the radar but isn't--he is second in innings pitched on the Sox and leads in wins with 8. Even I have been impressed even though I'd written him off. He has a good repertoire which works when he mixes his pitches and generally keeps the ball low and throws strikes. I think the other four--Sale, Price, ERod, and Wright--have better stuff, but this year Porcello was pretty much our ace for a couple of weeks or so and overall so far are 2d best starter. I do think Thunder starting his second straight game thread is a good omen at the right time. Tomorrow begins a 10 game road trip thru Baltimore, Seattle, and Minnesota before returning to play Seattle and then the Angels at Fenway. No better time to show what this team is made of with Mookie likely to return soon and, one hopes, for good.

A little too early to write the Sox off I think. I am stunned you don't like Sox hitting. Literally stunned. 2d in MLB in runs, dingers, and OPS. Our five best hitters so far are Betts, JDM, Beni, Bogie, and Moreland--and three of them have only played 80% of the games to date. Devers so far is languishing, but has potential written over over him. You gotta stop following the game threads where some talksoxers actually enjoy hammering the lineup or any other miscue. On some threads they would have us believe our baserunning is below little league level. I'm serious. Oh, and the lineups are almost never optimal and Cora overall slightly below average as a manager. And so on and so on. I do think the Yankees hitting is better, but not by much, and that to me is astounding because I think they are loaded this year. Meanwhile I think are pitching is definitely better now that Pom is on the DL and Wright looks like the 2016 version, Porcello almost 2016, ERod maybe his best year to date, and two potential aces in Sale and Price. Time will tell, but I just don't see the Yankees rotation being as good as ours.

Really? I thought they took him out in the 8th last night because of back spasms. As for the day of rest thing, it's worked pretty well so far.

No. They're the same. I'm simply not prepared to condemn Moreland as quickly as you are.

Actually, even worse with Mookie and JD, or have you forgotten the April 21 no-hitter?

Very good point, so why not start a "bring Hanley back" thread? DD and especially Cora acted too quickly and let a good one get away. I love these game threads because they produce some really good insights.

Good thing Mookie and JD were injured because it could have been worse if they had played. How can I say that? They both played and batted on April 21 when Manaea threw that no-hitter. Amazing how in a loss talksoxers rarely if ever give credit to the other team's pitcher. I thought the White Sox pitchers, especially Covey, looked pretty good tonight. And don't forget that error that put a Sox player in position to score. Tough to deal with that, but he did. I do not disagree this was a disappointing loss, especially given the great job by Sale. Two straight is even more disappointing.

Interesting. I do remember watching Ted hit, and he hit the ball hard, really hard, but not necessarily with an uppercut. And only one guy threw the ephus pitch. I do think this is a trend because the shifts are very different from before and used much more often, with the unhappy result of too many guys wanting to get loft on the ball to hit if over the shift not thru it.

Postseason???? This is about the postseason? That's an ice age away. It's early June and hard enough to keep the Yankees from running us over. You only need three good starters--maybe just two--for the postseason and 2 or 3 good relievers, so we'll have to revisit this idea in September. But right now it's the long haul and for that five good starters is just what we need.

Agree on all even though I like Pedey a lot.

I like keeping guys period although I didn't mind losing Ellsbury when I saw the price. Ditto Damon. Salty. Pablo and Hanley--very expensive for the Sox because Henry is paying them to play for someone else. Manny Ramirez. Right now the Sox have an awfully good nucleus of lineup players and starters: Betts, Beni, JDM, Bogie, Devers, Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, and Wright. That said, I would pay $30M/year for none of them even though Price is already there. I would lose him first, then Porcello, but none of the position players unless $30M/year is in play. I am pretty sure the agents for Harper and Machado will insist on a minimum of $30M/year with the only question for how long. So I am interested in neither. I mention the agents because I think they are driving this train and they only get a percentage. 5%? Anyway, it's insane. Oh, I do like watching Harper and Machado play. Also Trout, some of the Yankees, etc. I just don't care much whether they play for the Sox.

Do you just make this stuff up and then throw against the wall to see if anything sticks? The Sox currently have five--count 'em--good starters: Sale, Porcello, ERod, Price, and Wright. They are backed up by Velazquez and Johnson, both of whom have had good starts this year. Best of all, Pom is on the DL.

Really? I go there now and then but didn't know how credible they are.

Actually, both of them because in neither year or any other has he displayed a usable changeup, which to me is a fatal flaw for a left starter going up against predominantly righty bats. A 91-92 mph fast ball works fine when the user mixes it with a good curve, which Beeks has, and a usable changeup, ditto. I also like the fact that, when Beeks is on the mound, he is ready to pitch. When Pom is on the mound, his first thought is to get off it and walk around. If he keeps his foot on the mound, his primary impulse is to think about his next pitch because he is terrified of what might happen. Add to all that the fact that he is terrible going to 1B on grounders to the right because his pitching motion--and his recovery from it--take him away from 1B and a little off balance. You are right to cite his stats for last year because they're pretty good, but I have never believed in this guy because of his weak repertoire and his obvious lack of confidence and his inability to field his position.

Ahem. You do know, I hope, that the FO and the manager and a plethora of coaches agree with moonslav's assessment. Right now he does indeed look awful, especially last night on the 97 mph K with the bases loaded, but his track record, including at Boston last year, says he is the real deal. He's just, in moonslav's words, raw.

Hey newbie--newer than me, anyway. Pretty sensible on Beeks and the way I saw it. Sox have done OK without Mookie, but we do need him back. Not so sure about the need for Pedey even though I like him a lot. Devers will come around--he's just a kid.

Myths go back literally thousands of years although I prefer the newer ones. The good ones actually do have some semblance of truth, just not the whole truth.

Agree. My heartburn is with the stats guys dictating exactly what the defensive placements should be and the concomitant dictate that the best counter strategy is to swing for the fences. Thus all this talk about hitters developing some kind of upper cut in their swing. That's not the same as wanting to hit the ball hard.

I would go one step further and say that right now I would put Beeks ahead of Pomeranz on my list of possible Sox starters. He already has a better repertoire and doesn't stomp around the mound and finally throw a pitch every half hour or so.

Horrible 1st, granted, but Beeks in the end was better than I expected in terms of his repertoire. His fastball can get up to 94 or 95. Good curve, good downward break. Changeup needs work, but is workable and crucial for a lefty. Cut fastball maybe used too much. So by my reckoning he already has a better arsenal than Pomeranz. That first inning hopefully taught him something about mixing his pitches from the get go.

Boy did I see this game differently from almost everyone else. My starting premise was this was again an effort by Cora to expand his talent pool. Thus not only Beeks on the mound, but, just as important if not more so, Swihart behind the plate, which I thought he did well. Vazquez as DH a surprise, but motivated I think by two thoughts: 1) showing off that the can DH a catcher because he has three; 2) capitalizing on Vazquez's three hits the night before, also against a lefty. I think JD ain't as good as JBJ or Mookie in RF, but he has a decent arm and a month ago made an excellent running catch in right center. That triple down the RF line was a tough play especially given the speed of the baserunner, and JD cut it off before it got to the corner. Terrible first by Beeks, granted, largely because he kept throwing fast balls and not spotting them well. He then went 3 innings, giving up 1 run because he used his curve a lot more and even a semi-decent changeup. Not sure that cut fastball is that useful, however. So I think the mission was accomplished--Beeks could be brought up again if the need arises. Game outcome was largely determined by that terrible 1st, but I would also point out that the Sox twice had the bases loaded with one out and the first time Beni GIDP'd and the second time Devers and Travis struck out badly. The Tiger reliever simply blew that 97 mph fast right by them. I know the Yankees are breathing down our necks, but this is still early June and a good time to do a little discovery in my opinion.

Meh. I'm not saying games in June aren't important, but we are barely halfway thru the season. Tonight provided some pretty useful information. Swihart looks OK behind the plate and he get a nice double on a night when we ain't hitting. Beeks can pitch at this level. Johnson looked awfully good. Oh, and the game ain't over.