Maxbialystock

Of course it's arbitrary. You gotta draw a line somewhere. I like that standard because it requires a starter to go 2/3 of a game and to limit the damage to 3 runs, which I agree is an ERA of 4.5 but is earned by facing the same lineup a minimum of twice and sometimes three times, which is no mean feat. At the same time, you don't have to be a 10 K complete game ace to get a quality start. Yesterday ERod did go 5.2 and gave up 0 runs, but he also loaded the bases in the 6th, had thrown 110 pitches, and badly needed someone to come in and bail him out. I loved what ERod did and said so on the game thread,but I'm also fine with that not being an official quality start.

Pretty good stuff, moonslav, especially coming from someone who likes stats a lot. And I think your central point is dead on: yes, WAR is certainly flawed, but it's the best attempt so far to measure the whole ballplayer. As I said earlier, the OP misses the real point, which is that, if Trout and Mookie are rated at 3.9 and 3.6, they are both very good and probably too close to call on who is better because WAR is and must be an approximation. The eye test is best practiced by experienced scouts, and even they agree they can make mistakes.

I love your final point because it demonstrates your fundamental misunderstanding of WAR. If one player is 1.0 and the other is 1.3, the real point is that they are roughly the same overall caliber even though one may be the better defender and the other the better hitter. I also object to the implied meaning of "flawed" when you use it because you really seem to mean, "not perfect and therefore to be disregarded." I always liked batting averages, but like OBP even more and OPS even more than that. Each of those stats tells me something that just looking at a player swing the bat will never tell me. Results count in baseball, and stats are for the most part tabulations of results. That said, I do have my doubts about defensive stats like range factor, etc because measuring defense is not nearly as easy as measuring offense.

About where I am. The OP's rage against WAR ignores the fact that it ranks Trout and Betts very close together and presumably includes all five tools: catch, throw, run the bases, hit, and hit with power. Here are some things that might be in Trout's favor: 10 vs. 11 Mookie stolen bases, but 0 CS while Mookie has been caught twice. 3 outfield assists vs. Mookie 2. If you believe all the stuff about how valuable JBJ's defense is, part of that assumes centerfield is tougher than right field. Mookie is part of a very good offense and Trout isn't, so Trout gets walked a lot. Trout is bigger: 6'2" vs. 5'9" Mookie has the green monster, which presumably is good for a righty hitter. He has more than twice as many doubles as Trout. I think both are very good and am delighted one of them plays every day for the Sox. I did see an article online in espn that torqued me, however, because it says Trout could be having the greatest season--using WAR as the measuring rod--in the history of MLB and makes zero mention of Mookie whose WAR is 3.6 to Trout's 3.9.

Pretty neat. Johnson mixed in that slider that Trumbo thought was a curve and would go in the dirt. It didn't and was called strike three. Terrific game by everyone. I have to say people complain about Devers' defense, but I think Nunez is worse at 2b anyway. He gets to stuff, but never to get outs.

Yeah, but that curve worked well and got that popup and Johnson caught the overthrow from JBJ because he did back up Vazquez. Pom never does jack on defense.

How much are they paying Johnson again to fall on his ass instead of covering 1B?

Orioles have the same number of hits, 12, as the Sox today. But all of theirs are singles. Sox have 6 singles, 3 doubles, 3 dingers, and a 5-0 lead. Good game by ERod--5.2, 9 singles, 7 K's, no walks, and no runs. Good call to bring in Hembree, made easier by Erod having thrown 110 pitches.

Sadly true.

See that right there. That's what I'm talking about. JDM just struck out with men on 1st and 2d. I keep saying he doesn't hit as well when is the DH. If he was in LF today, he might have got a single there instead of that stupid K.

That's one interpretation. Look, we all know he sucks lately, but he as sucked before, like all of 2014 and most of 2015 until he started hitting. There ensued a good 2015 finish, a great 2016, and a so-so 2017. Now an awful 2018. I'd say Cora was right to give him another start today despite the wretchedness of the last two games. Beyond that, it's hard to say. One thing, however. Two games ago he could not hit a fastball in the dead center of the strike zone because he saw several of them in those two K's.

I wouldn't. He's got 2 long relievers in Velazquez, who has been solid this year, and Wright. He's got Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, and I believe Poynter is back as a lefty reliever. Don't know about Johnson. Bullpen went 4 yesterday with ease. So far, so good today going into the 8th with Poynter on the mound.

Has anyone else noticed that the Orioles absolutely refuse to run on Betts's arm--not from 1st to 3d on a single (at least twice) and not even from 2d to home on a single with 2 outs. The Sox, on the other hand, are running amuck on Rickard's arm.

Be nice if ERod can just get thru the 6th unscathed. Very nice play by Beni to hold that corner shot to a single.

I'm not sure I fully approve of those 2 dingers by JDM today because he is the DH, and I've been arguing with moonslav that JDM hits better when he is also playing LF. JD Martinez is just nuts with that opposite field power. He and Mookie now tied at 15 each.

Meh. I see it as something to hope on. I would not have played JBJ today for obvious reasons, but said I was fine with whatever Cora decides. He threw the dice one more time and it paid off.

Incredible! Beni really comes thru. But, honestly, I question the call on that pitch--a fast ball close to the center of the zone.

I'd rather have a hit, but Mookie moved JBJ to 3b. time for Beni to man up and bring him home.

Cora is justified! Huge hit in a close game by JBJ. High fast ball slightly on the outside side of the plate.

Dead wrong yet again. He pitched great to Machado and that was a very callable strike. I'll take high pitch counts when he is shutting down the other team and we are clinging to a 1-0 lead thru 5 innings. He right now is carrying this team on his back, you ingrate.

Of course it hurt. Several on talksox are deeply offended when Devers commits an error. And the effect on the score is completely irrelevant.

Target hit, jasonbay44. I just have a hard time letting that stuff go. This year I've discovered a pattern: I don't mind dumping on our pitchers, but generally defend position players except JBJ, and in his case I remember saying when the was brought up in 2015--why not? We ain't going anywhere and maybe he's changed. I loved that that year and in 2016 and almost in 2017 he was a better overall centerfielder than Jacoby Ellsbury. This year I've soured, but am fine with any decision Cora makes.

Completely disagree. JBJ should be on the bench but isn't. Devers is too good a hitter not to continue to be an every day player. And his defense will improve according to soxprospects. He's 21 in case you've forgotten, and JBJ is 28.

Good analysis by Orioles announcers (I don't listen, but sometimes read the close captions) on that error. They said he had the right idea to go in to get the short hop, but was little late getting there.

Blame Bill James who continues to be a Red Sox consultant I believe. He says stealing bases and bunting are dumb.