Maxbialystock

Agree passed balls are just one metric and one that can be discounted when catching a knuckleballer. But you continue to deflect the central question: do you seriously believe that a rookie catcher playing in just 83 games can legitimately earn a DWAR of +5.9? Surely you can see the absurdity of that.

Yep.

Actually, that was used on a game thread to explain why we needed JBJ playing--he was far more likely to K than to GIDP and would therefore conserve outs.

His bat was never "so great" and you know it. He was a #1 pick in 2011, so they are hoping it might be pretty good, but so far hard evidence is lacking. As for Swihart catching AAA games last year, maybe they were desperate, i don't know. I do know that he hasn't caught a single inning this year--and I think that includes spring training. Do you still believe that Swihart in his rookie year in 2015 when he had 16 passed balls was in fact six wins (+5.9 DWAR) better defensively than the average MLB catcher? I do think the fact that he is catching Wright tonight is suggestive and that I might be right about the Mirabelli comparison. That is, just maybe one way to keep Swihart in Boston is to say he catches Wright and relieves Vazquez and Leon of that burden. I frankly think Vazquez catches Wright better, but I'll bet he wouldn't mind letting Swihart do it. Nasty work, but Wright has shown this year--to my great surprise--he can be effective.

Fine. Ignore catcher ERA and assume catchers don't make pitchers better. Heck, even moonslav doesn't defend that thesis any more. That still leaves you defending a preposterous number--that Swihart, a rookie catcher with 16 passed balls in 2015 was defensively six wins better than the ordinary MLB catcher that year. It also doesn't match the fact that the Sox since 2015 have tried to convert Swihart to be more versatile--an outfielder, even a corner infielder--rather than have him continue to develop as a catcher.

All due respect--and you have everyone's respect--but I just don't see the depth argument when this team is 8-4 without Mookie, who really is a difference-maker. Moreover, in the final analysis Mr. Ramirez was/is really a DH, and that doesn't help our depth much. As moonslav has pointed out, acquiring JD and keeping Moreland were strong evidence that the Sox were thinking Hanley was expendable before this season started. Granted, the vesting option was a key consideration for acquiring JD and keeping Moreland. The only rationale for keeping Hanley and making that vesting option possible was not that he added depth, but that he brought great hitting--an OPS of .900 or better--and that was never going to happen.

Sure. Meanwhile, however, Pedey is under contract for I think two more years plus we have Holt and Nunez. So I don't see a need for a deal this year.

I might have misread you. If you mean a better hitter than Leon, Vazquez, and JBJ, I can't quarrel with that. I thought you meant the whole team.

I'm sorry, but that number is just downright laughable for a rookie catcher, who was converted to catcher by the Sox after they signed him in 2011 out of high school, to be 6 games better (wins above replacement) than the average MLB catcher for his defense alone. Absolutely laughable. As I have also pointed out, the team ERA was abysmal in 2015 with Swihart as the primary catcher.

Did you know that the 2015 team ERA for the Sox was 4.31, ranked 25th in MLB with Swihart as the primary catcher and that the team ERA improved in 2016 and again in 2017 when he wasn't catching at all?

I just looked up the catcher DWAR's in 2015, and Swihart was a -.4. Leon was a +.7. Swihart is unquestionably a good athlete and all around baseball player, but catcher is very much a specialty position requiring unique skills that take time to develop. On top of that, catchers have shorter careers, which is why Bryce Harper was converted from catcher to outfield the instant the Nationals picked him in the draft. Does anyone besides me remember Doug Mirabelli? He caught Tim Wakefield exclusively and was traded away or let go only to be brought back in a very dramatic way. I say again, catching is a specialized skill, and apparently the Sox don't see Swihart as having the requisite skills for full time duty unless or until, as happened in 2015, other guys go on the DL for extended periods. So I think tonight is an opportunity to again show Swihart's versatility--he can play the outfield, he can play the infield corners, he can catch, he can do it all--while also getting him some more at bats because in the end I think it is his bat which will secure him an MLB career.

I have never played fantasy baseball and consequently don't think in terms of trades even though I agree they have made a difference for the Sox, especially pitchers. Overall DD has done pretty well I think, but I see no compelling need for a trade right now. This particular group of players seems to have jelled despite individual weaknesses/failures.

Way over the top. Swihart has never shown that kind of potential. Not even close.

And he loves Donald Trump.

They were both on the 2015 Boston Red Sox when Swihart had 16 passed balls.

Exactly. Fenway Park is very photogenic but has lousy sight lines down the right side.

I don't think they are "something special," at least, not yet. But I do like the overall average of the five best--Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, and Wright. Pom has been worthless.

Swihart is, if anything, worse at catching the knuckler than Vazquez. He had 16 passed balls in 2015.

FWIW, Sox to date are 3-3 vs. the Yankees and 2-2 vs. the Astros. I'm fine with a rotation of Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, and Wright. Did you notice we beat the Astros ace of aces Saturday and their 2d best last night? Did you not know that in 2013 the Tigers ace of aces--same guy, Verlander--lost a pitching duel to John Lackey of the Sox in a key ALCS game?

Amazing all the notions about how to fix the lineup with Mookie out. He's one guy, not even a third of the order. The Sox are 8-4 when he misses a game or goes out early. How is that possible? Well, for one thing, the Sox dumped Hanley--addition by subtraction. That definitely helped. For another, other guys are rising to the occasion which is what moonslav predicted awhile ago before Mookie got hurt. Like everyone else, I want Mookie back ASAP, but meanwhile I kind of like what I am seeing.

Nobody ready, I suspect. He had thrown maybe 75 pitches after 6 and got the first guy out. Then the error by Nunez. Then the walk. As it was, we were lucky the HBP led to an injury delay and gave Barnes time to warm up.

To me our rotation is what it is. Like the little girl with a curl, when she was good, she was very, very good, and when she was bad, she was horrid. Last night we saw Porcello be both very good and horrid. On the other hand, the Sox just split four games at Houston against easily the best pitching staff and the best rotation in MLB. I give a ton of credit to the lineup, who really came thru, and even to the bullpen, but none of our starters--Pom, Sale, Price, and Porcello--was bombed the way starters as recently as last year were. By that I mean the "7 run rule," which Cora clearly does not believe in. Of all MLB pitchers, right now Sale is 7th in WAR, Porcello 15th, and Rodriguez 31st. And Price should get into the the top 30. I'll take that rotation any day of the week. I dislike Pom, but think Wright is the fix. 4th on the list is Verlander, the very same guy the Sox beat (well, he did leave with a 3-2 lead) last night. So to me it is inarguable that our starting pitching is not good enough or needs to be fixed.

Exactly. And let it be noted by all citizens of talksox that our own moonslav attended both wins in person and with his family.

I think the carping critics never, ever give credit to the guys when they are aggressive and it pays off. And when there is an out, it’s back to the woodshed time—even for Mookie.

Ok. He hit it hard. Can’t ask for more.