Maxbialystock

I agree. I even think that's 2 reasons to go with Jansen yesterday: 1) 11 years of consistent relieving/closing; 2) get him back on the horse so he can demonstrate he's still got it. I'll even add a 3d reason. Why pay a guy $16 freaking million to close and then not let him close? And I still think Cora is wrong--for three reasons. The first is that Jansen absolutely stunk Friday night: 3 runs and no outs plus a complete disregard of the runners on first base. Brasier, of all people, replaced him and immediately got three outs. The second is that Friday night was a far more relevant statistic than the previous 11 years or even the previous six weeks of this season. If you doubt that, just look at how Jansen pitched Saturday. Same exact issues. And the third is that the point of playing and managing a game is to win it. Getting Jansen "back up on the horse" had to be secondary to winning the game.

Excuse me? Have you completely forgotten about the rotation? Friday night, Paxton's first start in half century or so, and he gives up that 2 run dinger, then settles down with good stuff and finishes with 5 innings and 2 runs. The lineup backs him up with 6 runs. But Winck gives up 3 and Jansen and another 3 (Jansen got nobody out) for a very painful 8-6 loss. At Fenway with a good crowd. Saturday Sale pitches an absolutely gem. Maybe the neatest thing was the 3 K's immediately after the solo dinger. Anyway, 8 innings, 1 run, and 3-1 lead with just the 9th inning to get a save and a win. So Cora sends Jansen right back out there as if Friday night never happened and as if nobody else in that entire bullpen was capable of getting through the 9th without giving up 2 or more runs. So to me the Cora--with his bad decision yesterday--and his bullpen are sending this message to the rotation: don't give it your best shot because, once you leave the mound, we're giving it all back. Oh, and when we do, we're going to blame it all on Kike for making a bad throw. This is no doubt unfair, but I have to also mention the loss to the Phillies on May 7. Houck was pitching his buns off, so much so that Cora let him pitch to the Phillies batting order a third time--which he did successfully. That is, he got a popup, ground out, and K while giving up a single to the first four batters in the Phillies lineup. Cora decided, "enough is enough," and pulled Houck and sent in Bleier, who promptly gave up the 2 run dinger to Schwarber.

Of course. We're fans, not philosophers. I haven't forgotten the 8 game winning streak or the fact that the Sox are still over .500. But, man oh man am I pissed off about those two losses Friday and Saturday. To be honest, Friday just happened. Good start by Paxton--great news!--then Winck doesn't have it. On that point I agree with you--it was bound to happen. And then Jansen was, if anything, much worse than Winck--3 runs and no outs. But one can argue it was inevitable. Saturday, however, was very different. Saturday was a masterpiece of pitching by Chris Sale--8 innings, 1 run. And Cora send freaking Jansen back out to save what should have been a magnificent 3-1 win. Stupid, stupid, stupid Cora. Jansen was just as bad as the night before. Now Kluber with his slow stuff today--backed up by a bullpen completely in shock and a manager who has know idea what to do with them.

I feel differently. I think the Cardinals are one of the truly great MLB franchises. St Louis is a small city, but has a terrific fan base. And the Cardinals have rewarded them with plenty of ups with the occasional downs, like 2004 when the Sox took 4 straight to break the Curse. Branch Rickey started with the Cardinals and created the first real farm system. Lewis and Clark's Corps of Discovery started from St Louis and returned there two years later, 1804-06. Stan Musial. Ozzie Smith. Dizzy Dean.

Agree the sample is small, but the eye test says Sale is his old self, Paxton has pretty good stuff for a guy who's been out forever, Bello shows real promise, Houck, if anything, is getting better, and Kluber seems to have figured out how to be effective with a really slow fastball. Best news? If Cora has any sense, Pivetta is his 6th starter with all that implies. On the other hand, yesterday Cora made it known to the world he doesn't believe in or trust his bullpen any more--not when he sends Jansen back out to save Sale's absolutely brilliant start (1 run, 8 innings). So, either Cora is just stupid, or he simply thought nobody else besides Jansen--who was obliterated the night before without getting anyone out--could pitch the 9th with a 2 run lead.

Oh, give me a freaking break. Jansen had the easiest job of anyone in both games and blew both of them. In one total inning pitched, he gave up 5 earned runs. I do agree his loss of velocity was/is a factor, but I also then question his over-reliance on his fastball. And I definitely question Cora's decision to bring him back out there yesterday, Saturday, after the debacle Friday night. Just stupid--or, just as likely, an indictment of his own bullpen because he clearly thought no one else on that team was capable of getting 3 outs with a 2 run lead in the 9th. Did the ump's calls against Jansen piss me off? Yes, they did. But apparently they were correct calls. I do not disagree with your take on the team as a whole. Something is working--and allowing them to win games--despite the retread rotation (now righting itself), the defensive lapses, and now a bullpen that coughs up runs like an asthmatic.

I know it will be tough, but I sure hope Jansen can be available for the 9th inning today. I say this because yesterday Cora basically announced to the world he can trust no one else to get a save--even with a 2 run lead. Did he comment on his decision after the game?

Picking on the wrong guy. That was a really tough play to get two, so Kike threw before he was ready. In retrospect, he should not have thrown to 1b, but doing so was understandable because in fact the GIDP would have saved the win for Sale. The fault lies with Cora first and Jansen second. The wrong freaking guy was on the mound for the 9th inning save--and Cora was stupid for bringing him back after Friday night's debacle. And your comment about Kike getting pinch hit for is just silly when we know Cora also pinch hit for Wong, and Reyes--and probably should have pinch hit for Duran.

I of course agree he's not yet a $20M player. But here's the thing. By the time a player has demonstrated he's consistent enough to merit $20 x 5 (or whatever), he's used up those really good years. My own theory is that players play their best before 30 and are paid the most after 30. One glaring exception to that rule is Wander Franco. He's 22 (born in 2001) and has an 11 year $182M contract (guaranteed of course). It's probably less than he's worth, but 22 is really young to be getting that big a contract. If he is careful how he spends/invests that money, he is set for life, and he's been in MLB for just 2 years.

You betcha. What a difference one little week can make. Sale reconfirms his ace status. Paxton has an amazing first start. Bello looks good (still needs command). Kluber is a junker, but has figured out how to make it work. Houck pitched a third time to the top four Phillies hitters and got a K, popup, groundout, and a single by Bryce Harper. Suddenly, in the blink of an eye, Cora has the option of not starting Pivetta. On the other hand, into every Sox fan's life a little rain must fall, and last night and today suggest the bullpen just might be in shambles. Jansen stunk badly in back to back games. He's our $16M closer--well, closer and opener/welcomer whom Cardinal fans just love to death. Winck got hammered for 3 runs. Cora used Jansen today because apparently he does not think any other pitcher on the Sox is able to get a one inning save with a 2 run lead. Let me repeat that. Jansen looks awful, and Cora insists he's the only guy who can close.

Baloney. Jansen was not the only option today, especially when Sale had already pitched 8 innings, so just 1 inning was left.

Hope is not a method. Cora and Cora alone is responsible for todays loss. He had plenty of better options than the guy who gave up 3 hits and a walk last night without getting a single out.

Forget Brasier—for a moment—and focus on the disaster of the last two games. When Cora sent Jansen out for the 9th today, despite last nights absolutely awful outing, he was saying no other Sox reliever was capable of getting a save. That’s scary.

But it's fair. We all talk about how difficult it is to go through the batting order a second or especially a third time. Closers never have to do that. It's why most of them need only two pitches to be effective. Jansen has pitched all of 12.2 innings without ever having to face hitters twice in the same game. And he's given up 6 freaking runs. For this he's getting paid $16M.

I'm sure you're right about the Cards. But today was a freaking gift. They got 3 runs on 1 hit. But, I have to ask, why are we talking about the Cardinals when the Sox just gave away two games they should have won? Two good starts--actually one good start, and one great start--wasted. Today's loss was especially painful because sending out Jansen was not only stupid, it also indicated that Cora apparently believes he can't trust anyone in his bullpen other than Jansen.

You disagree with me at considerable risk. I said Jansen shouldn't pitch today, and I was right. I hasten to add that it was an obvious call because Jansen looked completely helpless/hopeless last night while throwing 22 pitches and getting no one out. Also worth noting is that, with just one inning of relief needed to preserve that 2 run lead, Cora and his bullpen coach decided that absolutely no one in the bullpen--other than Jansen--was capable of getting that save. So forget my opinion and go with theirs. They think their bullpen stinks.

Are you serious? Jansen put the first two Cardinals on base without their having to swing the bat. In fact, they scored 3 freaking runs on 1 hit.

Postgame analysis on NESN is all about the fact that the umpire penalized Jansen for pitching too quickly.

90% of this is on Cora and his pitching coach.

You think?

Well, maybe we can renew the discussion on the bullpen. Cora and his pitching coach knew Jansen was flat awful last night, but today they decided that absolutely nobody else in the bullpen could get a save with a 3-1 lead. It had to be Jansen. Last night the bullpen gave up 6 runs, and today they gave up 3 runs. To me that's "trouble with the bullpen."

Mostly on Cora. Gotta give some credit to Jansen. He's the one with the gigantic paycheck.

I flat do not understand why Jansen is in there.

Wasn't that bad a pitch. Just a great swing by Arenado--helped by righty vs lefty. What's kind of neat is that Sale hasn't backed off and just struck out the next three Cardinals--3d time through the lineup too. Plus today the changeup flat isn't working, so he's relying more on command, the slider, the 4 seamer, and the cut fastball.

Yeah, yeah. But last night we saw that what the starters take away from opposing lineups, our bullpen has decided they should give back. Winck and Jansen are probably our two best and gave up 6 runs. To be honest, Sale is clearly an ace, and Paxton really impressed me last night, especially after giving up 2 in the 1st inning. Kluber, maybe. But I do like Bello and this year I like Houck too. So that's four pretty decent starters plus Kluber. Or put it this way. Pivetta right now looks like a liability as a starter, and Cora doesn't have to start him. And hopefully last night's implosion in the bullpen was an aberration.