wyo-sox

How much time do you see him getting at first?

LOL My dad always told me that story but I never knew who the characters were. My expectations seem to flop back and forth. One day I can convince myself we will be in the playoffs, the next day I am sure we will be in the basement again. Should be an interesting year.

Where would we use Jones primarily. I know really nothing about him?

2011 Lester with Salty 3.77 around 140 innings 2011 Buch with Salty 3.5 around 80 innings So one year they did pitch fine to him, last year they did not. Does that not tell anyone 2012 was the pitchers fault? Not sure why everyone wants to find the worst performers with Salty and ignore their previous performance with him????? If you want to point out two pitchers era's and draw a connection to the catcher, I think you owe an explanation as to why the previous year they did fine, and why lower era's to him were not across the board.

It's not cherry picking, that was their era's. for 2011. Beckett and Dice K had much better era's through 2012 with Salty then with Shop. Doubront had a similar era with both catchers, slightly better with Shop. Bard had slightly better era with Salty. And while it's a small sample size as a starter Morales pitched much better to Salty. And overall the bullpen pitched well to Salty. I'm trying to look at all the starters individually so not sure how that is cherry picking? Cherry picking is looking at 2011 when Tek almost exclusively caught Beckett on a really good Beckett year, while Salty caught everyone else including injured Lackey and a over the hill knuckle baller..... then acting surprised the team had a better winning percentage with Tek. Or looking at 2012 when the whole team was riddled with injuries, we traded away major talent, Ortiz didn't play, we basically fielded a triple a team, drama with the manager was at a climax, and everyone could see the team gave up....... Salty caught through all that while Shop was not even on the team any more......then people feel justified to point out we had a better winning percentage with Shop than with Salty... that is cherry picking. This will be my last post on Salty as I have no idea why I feel obligated to defend the guy. I hate his bat, I hate his throws to second and think at best he is average. But to blame this team's win loss record on him while ignoring other factors is silly. Comparing the team's win loss record from one catcher to another without pointing out who they were catching, number of games caught and overall team performance while they catching just feels lazy to me. And the biggest thing to me is the era. Facts are that some pitchers pitched worse to Salty, some about the same and some better. The biggest factor in Saltys poor catcher era in 2012 was clearly Buch and Lester... so I don't see how it's cherry picking to see what those pitchers did the previous year with Salty..... and when one sees they both threw respectable era's in 2011 to Salty... I do not think it's unreasonable to think the terrible 2012 Lester and Buch had are mostly the fault of Lester and Buch. I think it is a fair question to ask people that blame Salty for Lesters 2012 why he threw well to him in 2011. I enjoy your posts and hope you take this as my opinions and observations and how The logic plays out in my mind.... not trying to be negative or argumentative. I just feel people use Salty as a scapegoat for the pitchers instead of admitting Lester and Buch flat out laid down and crapped the bed. Edit: So my using Salty / Buchs 80 innings in 2011 does not prove anything........ but in the same sentence you state other 2011 catchers had better era's for Lester, when Lavs caught 1 inning and Ten caught 40 compared to Salty 140 innings. Then you accuse me of cherry picking?

How do you explain Buchs 3.5 and . Lesters 3.7 to Salty in all of 2011? How do you explain some pitchers with better era's in 2012 with Salty as opposed to Shopach?

Are you talking the pitchers era's?

Ah, well in my mind we need three pitchers to pitch under4 for the season in order to compete. So depending on the rest of the staff, yes under your scenario I think we can make the playoffs.

No, I did not say the only way to the playoffs was for both get era's under 4. I said I think they will. I was just stating where I think their era's will end up and that I think it will help us get to the playoffs. It was meant as opinion, not an argument against your post.

I like Lohse, but do not see where we have room for him. We need Buch and Lester to pitch better then Lohse. Dumpster,Dubrount and Lackey should all be as good as Lohse. So I don't know who you move to use Lohse. And I suspect Dubs is going to really surprise everyone this year. I'll go out on a limb and predict era of 3.7 and 15 wins for Dubs.

I think if both end up with era's under 4 we have a great year and make the playoffs.

Actually it was shown that Lester and Buch had higher era's last year with Salty compared to Shop. it was also shown some pitchers era, like Becketts was pretty much the same, and it was shown some pitchers had a lower era pitching to Salty. It should also be noted Lesters era throwing with to Salty in 2011 was something like 3.7

I love the one year deal on Naps. I really think this works out well in transitioning to younger players in the near future. If he stays healthy and hits well, and they get one more good starter we can compete for a wild card. ps, I don't think anyone here would last 45 minutes in WY.

Man the Celtics have been fun to watch on their last 5 wins. Green been playing with some fire! Sully really looking like he could be special. Go Celtics.

I'd be glad to meet up sometime . I regrett not trying to get together with anyone on here last year when I went to Boston. I'm afraid this year Denver will be the only place I go to see the Sox play, doubt many on here will make that trip.

I do not take issue with your complaints on Salty. You understand baseball better then I do. I just can't stand the stat picking with a couple pitchers without looking at all of them and looking at other factors.

The good news is that Salty and Lester have had some success in the past. Salty Lester 2011 era was 3.77. Whoever's fault 2012 was, let's hope they can get back to their 2011 performance.

plus the Montreal Rays would be ironically awesome

agreed

So you don't think Varitek basically exclusively catching Beckett on one of Becketts good years while Salty caught everyone else in 2011, including over the hill Wakefield and injured Lackey, explains a good portion of difference? Or how about the fact that Salty caught all of 2012, even after injuries and "the trade" really made it a much weaker team, and Shop was not part of the team for all that? Look, I already stated I think Salty is not great.....and I said comparing catches with these numbers is not fair as there are way to many variables..... even more unfair when Shop / Tek haven't caught near the innings Salty did. But if you did, clearly, as many pitchers did as good or better with Salty era wise as pitchers that had worse era's with him. It just seems out of character for so many posters here to only look at two pitchers era and make such generalized conclusions. Seems like Salty becomes the fall guy a bit.

I like that! I have never been able to muster much interest in the asg.

Yes Lester and Buch had better era's with Shop. The others..... (Shop first then Salty) Cook 3.6 / 5.2 Doubront . 4.18 / 4.95 Beckett 5.46 / 4.47 (almost identical innings) Dice K . 7.20 / 5.93 Morales 4.91 / 2.96 Thank you.

Jung,why can't Ross be the primary catcher? Are you saying it's an age thing? Conditioning thing? Or are you saying the reason he has never started much is because he has never really been that good? Always enjoyed your analysis and was not 100% clear on our thoughts here.

I had a real hard time finding numbers today. I remember looking at them in season and seem to remember some starters had little to no change and the relievers over all pitched really well to Salty. But to me there are way to many variables to much stock in comparing catchers era's . To say that Shop provided better results for Lester..... wouldn't we have to know the team batting averages Shop caught compared to what Salty caught? Did salty catch Buch right before and after his injury hiatus? Did Salty catch Lester in the one game that was horrible beyond any average and how bad could that one game skew the numbers..... and isn't the odds of catching a pitcher on a really bad inflated the more you catch? I would love to see better catcher than Salty. I am by no means thinking he is great...... but I also will admit I am one of the more baseball ignorant folks on here and just have to trust what my eyes tell me. My eyes saw it was all about our starters sucking.

why not put up the numbers for all the starters and relievers that pitched to both catchers?