Gom

He's a terrible offensive player. He's an excellent defensive player. Overall, he's subpar. Anyone who slugs .382 in CF is a poor offensive player. I don't call Ellsbury the best CF in the game, but if he can't beat out Crisp, I'd be worried if I was you guys. I never said I'd take the Yankees CF's over Crisp right now. I believe that the best offensive player by far, at this point, is Damon. He's one year removed from an .841 OPS. Crisp has broken .800 once in six seasons, as opposed to Damon doing it 5 out of 12. I believe that Crisp can play CF with his eyes closed better than the Damon, and he is much better than Melky. I think Melky has better potential because he has four years to improve over Crisp. All three are subpar CF's. You know, if Kennedy or Hughes don't pitch well, I will be the first one to kill Cashman for not making what I thought was a no-brainer for Santana. I hope you guys are objective enough to do the same if Ellsbury is in the minors come April.

I was stressing defense only. Showing that defense wasn't all that important. Coco is average hitting CF? By what standards? The guy had a OPS of .712. I can't do that much worse at the plate than this guy. A .382 slugging? Are you kidding me? Melky isn't that much better. He is the most overrated OF the Yankees have had in years. I'm sorry, I don't equate young with potential. It just means that a player may suck for a very long time. He doesn't have a CF's typical body, he isn't overly big, or strong. He doesn't run all that well. He isn't an instinctively good fielder. He makes a good catch or two, or throws out a runner, and the media makes him out to be the next Bernie Williams. Bernie Williams last season ended with a .768 OPS, and everyone considered him to be downright terrible. Melky is a rising superstar at a .718 OPS. What a f***ing joke. Yankee fans are going to hate to hear this, but last year, Crisp was better than Melky. Much better. It's not even close. Their numbers were basically even at the plate, but Crisp has more speed and is a much better defensive player. I'd much rather have Melky, because his ceiling is higher in my opinion, but for last year only, Crisp was better. If Ellsbury can't beat out a guy with a .718 OPS and he is your best offensive prospect, and this is the guy you didn't want to trade for Santana, unless you win the World Series, your front office will hear about it. Cashman is already a goner at season's end due to his idiocy in not getting the best pitcher in baseball...AND...watching him lead the Mets to the best record in the National League in his own back yard. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion. The fact that I'd rather have Melky is like choosing between the last two chicks at a West Virginia townie bar at closing time. My only consolation would be I would be hanging out with ORS, and he'd get the one I rejected. :harhar:

To be fair, if I am in, please let me know what day/time you are doing the draft so I can 1) plan accordingly 2) let you know if I can make it. I don't want to be invited if I have other plans.

True.

If ORS chooses who's in/out, I have no chance. Can you imagine if he loses to me? LOL!

No, SITN, you are the one who's being misled. He's a terrible player, and you've got blinders on. He's got a great glove. Maybe even the best glove in the game. He's a terrible offensive player. He is basically an automatic out at the plate, and when he hits it, he never gets an extra-base hit. If Ellsbury can't beat out a guy who had a .712 OPS last year, then he's simply not as good as you guys think he is. You can make the same argument for Melky Cabrera. Everyone wants him to play, and although he adds some energy to the mix, I would much rather see Damon and Matsui in the game, and Melky being a late inning defensive replacement. Sorry, but I don't put a lot of emphasis on defense. The Yankees won 4 out of 5 World Series with sub-par defensive teams. Your Red Sox weren't all that great defensively either. Pedroia and Lowell are solid, and regardless of who played CF, you were solid, but you were weak everywhere else...ok, I forgot about 1B, you are pretty stong there too. You still won 2 out of the last 4 World Series.

See, that's where I disagree with you. It's tough to see range on TV.

I love how with 99% of people, hope springs eternal. Kennedy, Hughes, and Chamberlain will be major league average. That's all you need from the Yankees point of view anyways. Last year, a huge fall off from Wang/Pettitte to everyone else. Posada falls off. So does Arod. Cano hopefully improves. Jeter starts the inevitable decline. Damon improves. Matsui falls off. Abreu you don't even notice, but puts up excellent numbers again. Pettitte and Wang pitch about the same. Rivera is still Rivera. The team takes a step back offensively, and moves up a notch pitching wise. Same exact thing with the Red Sox. Ortiz and Manny start to slow down. Drew improves slightly. Varitek's final season as a major league caliber catcher. Lowell comes back to earth. Pedroia and Youkilis improve. Beckett tails off, and Lester/Buchholz are average like the Yankees trio. Schilling is finished. Red Sox stay about the same on both offense and defense. Injuries decide this thing. Not many people realize how close these two teams were last year. Two games separated them all season. Both were down 3-1 to the Guardians. You had the luxury of a 7 game season. To say either team blows the other out is a joke. What I'm curious about is this scenario: Both teams are in the playoffs. Final series of the season. Whoever wins the series gets home field due to best record. Do you burn out your pitchers to secure it, or rest up your starters? That, my friends, will be the big story the last week of the season.

I will disappear into my happy corner....for now.

Coco's future is on another team. If he makes the team over Ellsbury, than that is a serious blow to the Sox. That means that Ellsbury really isn't all that good.

Jeter struggled early on last season. His arm is very strong. With the exception of the first few weeks last year, he is accurate. He turns the double play well. He is possibly the best shortstop in the game when it comes to balls in the air. His range is possibly the worst of any regular shortstop in the game. What keeps people from realizing his overall sub-average play is that when he gets to the ball, you are usually out. When a player like Knoblauch or Steve Sax made errors, it was throwing errors. When you boot the ball, people remember that. However, when you just don't get to it, people don't realize it. The infield, the play is over before most fans know it. It's not like the outfield, when you can actually easily see a bad route to the ball. Most fans don't realize that Melky Cabrera actually takes very bad routes to the ball. Compared to Bernie Williams, he looks good, and ask anyone about Melky, and they tell you he has a great arm. That's because you see his throws, not his routes, unless you are lucky to get to see a lot of games in person. Just agree that Jeter is a poor fielder, and let the argument die. There isn't a Sox fan here who wouldn't want Jeter on his team instead of Lugo. That's like saying we'd rather have Giambi than Ortiz. I mean, Giambi can still somewhat play first base. Silly, stupid thread.

Where do you live?

His range is poor. He has a decent arm, and is phenomenal at balls in the air. The reason why Yankee fans have such a difficult time saying he is a poor fielder is because he is an excellent athlete. It doesn't seem to click in their eyes, and no one remembers the errors. Everyone remembers the flip in Oakland, or the diving in the stands against Boston [i was there, what a catch]. This is silly and stupid. It makes little difference, in one person's eyes, he's terrible, in another, he's average, etc. He's still on of the best shortstops in the game overall. This was like us saying that Nomar in his prime wasn't good. He was outright phenomenal, and for a short time, was better than Jeter. Case closed.

I really think this trade helps both teams, but down the road, the Nets couldn't have done much better. Give Thorn some credit.

The way I see it, the Yankees and Sox were two games apart last year. The loss of Schilling makes the Yankees better than the Sox. To tell you the truth, one semi-major injury will change it around. I don't know about you guys, but this is the closest I think the teams are in talent at the start of the spring training as far as I can remember. I think the "swing" players for the Yankees are Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy in pitching, and Giambi and Damon in hitting. For the Sox, I think it's Lester/Buchholz and Drew/Varitek. Whoever outperforms the other group wins the division.

If you have room, I want in. Let me know.

No, because it's meaningless. That's like us saying that Ortiz and Manny can't field or run for s***. It's not their game. Jeter has never been touted as an excellent fielder. His Gold Glove was a joke. So what? Only morons and idiots care that Ortiz is just a DH and Manny doesn't steal 50 bases a season. It's no different. Wakefield only throws 5 mph. Who cares as long as he wins? The point is, I watch a lot of games at the Stadium, and I'll take the one extra hit that MIGHT have been stopped and thrown out by a Gold Glove caliber every week to two weeks as long as he hits the way he does. Would you rather have Coco Crisp in left or Manny? Both in the field and at the plate. Silly argument.

No, it's been known. However, he's one of the best shortstops in the game overall. This is getting tired. Who would you rather have at short than Jeter? At most, a handful. That's like saying Manny is a terrible left-fielder, which he is. I'd still rather have him than pretty much any other left fielder.

Spring training is a fine time. Hopefully the Yankees have closed the two game gap on the Red Sox.

If you're that girl in your avatar, then a very warm welcome to you.

I'm a better defensive shortstop than Jeter. I also suck at short. This is a given.

I agree on the Buchholz and Lester statement, but not on the Dice K one. Japanese pitchers tend to have their best season as their first one. Now that everyone has seen this guy, both him and Okajima will be hit harder this year. Before you guys get your pink Boston panties in a bunch, it's not like I think Kennedy [1.89 ERA, 1.16 WHIP] or Chamberlain [0.38 ERA, 0.75 WHIP] will be anywhere close to what they put up last year either.