a700hitter
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Everything posted by a700hitter
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I didn't say that we couldn't have done better or cheaper than Ellsbury. You are twisting the argument. Stop. What Ben did turned out no better than if he kept Ellsbury. He maintained a $200 million payroll and found his way to last place twice.
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I just remember hearing the report that it was the worst Red Sox start since the 1910s. I did remember the start and the tea and the batter he hit, so I trust my recollection on this. As compared to Lester's start keep in mind that Bard's start was just an 1 1/3 innings with 5 walks and 2 hit batters. So, it is worse than Lester's start.
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Some articles about that start. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1208090-daniel-bard-boston-red-sox-hurler-earns-al-worst-of-the-night-award https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/04/30/red-sox-usually-willing-wait-with-struggling-starters/yd7TKboorsRblsRFgCgVQK/story.html
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He walked 5 batters hit 2 others and gave up a hit in 1 1/3 innings. I don't know why it was the worst start by a Red Sox pitcher since the 1910s. I just remember the Red Sox announcers saying it. I assume some stat person researched it.
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Ellsbury doesn't count as "anyone"?
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It was his last start for the Red Sox before he was permanently removed from the rotation.
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I didn't say that it affected us this season offensively. I said that we would be no worse off. We would have been much better defensively if he was in our lineup than that Former Shortstop, and that would have helped out pitching.
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It's a new day in the Red Sox FO. Larry Luchinno and Ben are both gone. I have debated Ben enough. His record speaks for itself. Stripped of excuses, rumors, and conspiracy theories it was a record that was largely one of failure and terrible decisions with the exception of one magnificent season. I look forward to an exciting off season where we will have a lot to talk about. For those of you who want to absolve Ben of the failures that occurred on his watch, but give him credit for things that happen after he leaves, go right ahead, but pardon me if I point out the silliness.
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Yep. Lol! I had that one in my post, but I edited it out. Lol! Yes, stubbornness and inconsistency were his trademarks. In 2014, he went with pitching and defense and let the offense flounder making no additions. In 2015, he rebuilt the offense and completely neglected the pitching, putting together what is our worst staff in decades.
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He just didn't have the makeup to start. Bobby V saw it. The kid would lose focus after going through the order one time. It wasn't going to work. Ben didn't listen, stuck stubbornly to it it until Bobby V left him on the mound to be humiliated against Toronto to the extent that it ranked as the worst start by a Red Sox pitcher since the 1910s. Only then was Ben left with no choice but to send him down. The Blue Jays were pissed that Bobby V left him in so long, because he almost killed Encarnacion twice in one inning.
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I am not saying that the solution was to sign Ellsbury to a big contract. But he had to come up with a better replacement plan than he did over the next 2 seasons. As for Ellsbury, we would be 2 years into his 7 year contract, and we have done terribly in redeploying that money, so as of today we would be no worse off if we gave Ellsbury the big contract. We will have to wait 5 more seasons to know definitively if it was a mistake or not. As for Victorino and Buch being under contract, that is not an excuse. We had squeezed the last useful drop out of Victorino, and after 2023, he had trade value. He should have been traded. The problem is that he kept the guys that had nothing left. He gets paid to know what a player has left in the tank. Branch Rickey used to say that it was better to trade a player one season too soon than one season too late. Ben always wanted until guys were a total bust.
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And I say with conviction that you would be wrong. Francona had been tuned out by that team. Also, the first of Ben's terrible moves came that year in converting Bard to a starter and stubbornly sticking to it even though Bobby V openly questioned whether the kid could do it. Bobby V may be obnoxious and arrogant, but he is a good baseball guy, and when he says a kid can't do it, Ben should have listened. That 2012 move with Bard was a forwarning of many future ill-conceived moves that he stuck to stubbornly and foolishly ruining 2014 and 2015. It was the first of his many very stupid moves. People forget that one.
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Whom he replaced with a rookie that was completely out of his depth hitting under .200 in over 500 plate appearances and Grady Sizemore who may have been worse. The dismantling process was over 2 seasons. The mistakes in 2013 were relying on too many untested rookies in too many key positions, having a horrible replacement plan for one of the most important members of the 2013 team (Ellsbury), and keeping the guys who were breaking down at a rapid pace -- Victorino, Buchholz, and he signed Napoli for 2 completely useless seasons.
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Ben being honest as usual.
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yes, that is the art of being a good GM. -
2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread
a700hitter replied to a700hitter's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
Some people do it professionally. -
2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread
a700hitter replied to a700hitter's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
I have known a few people who nicely supplement their incomes betting on sports. -
If the alternative after Hanley is equally as expensive and equally a failure for the next 3 seasons, the answer is yes.
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Also, this is a misinterpretation of what I am saying, so it is not straightforward. I said that Ben made a series of bad moves after 2013 dismantling and ruining that team. He kept the wrong guys, let the wrong guys walk and brought in the wrong replacements. Does that mean that it was a mistake to let Ellsbury go? I wouldn't conclude that yet, but surely his effort to restock the OF has been an abject failure. In 2015, I would take Ellsbury having an injured off year over 2015 Hanley without a doubt. That does not mean that I am saying that we should have paid him $142 million, but in the first 2 years after letting him walk the FO really s*** the bed with their alternatives, and they haven't saved a lot of money in the process.
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Two last place finishes since Ellsbury left. I am leading.;)
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Ben got shot, and at least he knows that he deserved it. He has integrity and is a good guy who can walk and chew gum at the same time, but he screwed up big time. He was probably almost family with ownership as he had been with the organization since his early 20's. They have him every opportunity to succeed. It must have been like firing a son. It had to be done. I'll say it over and over. His record of failure is unprecedented in sports for a high payroll team and unprecedented since pre-Yawkey years for the Red Sox (when they were probably pulling guys out of bars to play).
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Well, I will hold you to that.
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Here is the if this happened we would be screaming argument. Do people ever get tired of this poor and ineffective debating technique? Let me answer very straightforward. I would much rather pencil 2015 Ellsbury into our lineup than 2015 Hanley. Hanley has a .727 OPS and has cost us a ton of runs in the field.
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They need to come to the realization that this is a failed experiment. No amount of work will turn this around. I applaud his effort for trying, but I still can't believe the negligence of signing him for 4 years and assuming that he could make the transition. Awful decision making.
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More sugar please.
