a700hitter

The problem SFF is if the Yanks moves are wash with regard to their 2011, they did beat us by 7 games in 2011, so we are not closing the gap.

The Yankee rotation will be much stronger in 2012 than it was in 2011. They have an ace that always contends for CY Young, and they are 7 deep at the major league level.

Of course the players lost it on the field. That is where things get decided. Howver, we were only running two capable pitcher to the mound (Beckett and Lester) for the last 2 plus months of the season. The missing pieces of road were clear to everyone.

It looks more like a detour year. The bridge apparently collapsed.

There was nothing revisionist in my post. There are huge errors in your post above. At the time of the trading deadline, it was being reported that Buchholz condition was not improving and rather that it was worsening. As of July 28th, they were scheduling him to meet another back specialist and there was genuine concern that he would not return in 2011. It was being acknowledged in the press that Buchholz's injury might change the Sox approach to the trading deadline. It was reported in the press on August 1st that he had a stress fracture and was unlikely to come back. Here are links to articles that I found at that time. I am sure there are many more. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/782809-mlb-trade-rumors-clay-buchholz-injury-worsening-red-sox-forced-to-trade http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/7/28/2300619/clay-buchholz-injury-red-sox-back http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/08/boston-red-sox-clay-buchholz-back-injury/1 I acknowledged in my post that sometimes injuries cannot be prepared for or dealt with after the fact. However, 2011 was not that situation for the Sox. They had several options available to address the situation-- some very low cost and others at a high cost (like Fister-- who is a great pickup for the Tigers). The Sox opted for one fragile pitcher who was on the DL with a bad knee. They blew it. I never said that injuries aren't part of the discussion of what happened. Of course they are part of the reason for the collapse. There is no doubt about that. No one is disputing that. However, it is not an excuse for the FO in 2011 who didn't deal with the situation that was clearly becoming a crisis by the trading deadline. They knew Buchholz was not recovering. He had not even thrown off a mound by the trading deadline. They knew he had a fractured back before the deadline. Dice K had already undergone TJ surgery and it was suspected that Lackey was injured. There was a crisis staring them in the face and they responded with Bedard to bolster a $170 million payroll that was clearly in need of 3 starters. That was a huge misstep, and many of us non-professionals could see it at the time. What would Harden have brought? He only needed to bring 1 or 2 wins more wins than either Weiland or Wakefield or Miller. That was it. He didn't have to bring a lot. It's acknowledged that he has good major league stuff. He was going to be better than the guys we were rolling out there 3 of every 5 games. They didn't all get fired? One walked? Tito wouldn't have gotten fired if chicken-gate didn't go public? :lol: You really have nothing. Finally, going forward, the FO Office apologists should be on notice that injuries will not be an excuse in 2012, unless as I said previously, their plane crashes. We have a rotation of 3 reliable Major League pitchers. To say that our pitching staff lacks depth at this point going into 2012 would be a huge understatement. The situation is clear to everyone. If they do nothing to address it and they suffer an injury to the big 3, while it will be a reason for another bad season, it will not excuse the FO negligence.

It's starting to occur to me that the FO (including Benny Boy) wants Bobby V to play the bad cop. The statements we have heard and the ones today about Tek and Wakefield are probably more a result of a bigger strategy rather than Bobby V just being a loose cannon. I guess this type of strategy can work, but it is not ideal for player-manager relations. If it is going to work, he will have to have the complete unequivocal support of the FO. I don't know if he can put a lot of faith in that. LL is a duplicitous SOB. Edit: I didn't like reading the quote below from Valentine today, because it is probably true. One thing Benny boy hasn't done this season is mislead anyone. He has done what he has said he would do. Bobby V is in the know, and this is probably Benny boys plan.

I think the + was a PTBNL-- again not a big cost. Let's face it, Lars was a zero cost as he has zero future with this Sox and almost no trade value. They had to offer something, hence the PTBNL. It was not going to be a top tier prospect. The whole thing backfired on Theo. If you remember, he was desperately trying to pry away Bruce Chen from KC in the final week and Capuano on the last weekend. I still don't know why the Mets declined. They let Capuano walk. I guess they have bigger dummies in their FO.

Thank goodness that this chapter is finally closed... about 2 years too late.

The bad news for Saturday was that Benny Boy still hasn't gotten the team a starting pitcher. He is busy trying to limit the damage he caused by offering Ortiz arbitration. What evr time he has left over he is using to lock down a pscho journeyman Padilla. On the bright side, Bobby V has gone on record saying that neither Wakefield or Varitek has any chance of making the team if they come to Spring training. Thank you Bobby V for being the bad guy and shutting the door on these over the hill has beens. Apparently Benny Boy doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to break the news to them.

I should have clarified. The type of pitcher being discussed in the poll is a quality pitcher like Oswalt, not a garbage journeyman psycho like Padilla or a chump like Silva.

At what cost? They had a deal done for Harden in return for Lars A (who has absolutely no future with the Red Sox and almost no trade value). The Sox pulled the plug. Stupid move, especially in light of the fact that they knew Bedard had a knee injury and a history of being brittle. Giving up Lars A was essentially no cost. It would not have compromised the future or gutted our farm. Harden would have been a nice insurance policy, and if he had won 1 or 2 games, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Theo didn't make the move. His bad, and that is why injuries were not an excuse for 2011. iortiz is 100% right. Injuries come with the territory. It's not a platitude. The top of the food chain (the owners) didn't say "aw shucks that's too bad. We had some bad breaks." They fired everyone's ass. Everyone's. There is your proof that it was not an excuse. Injuries are a loser's lament. People remember who won and who lost. No one cares that Jim Rice was injured for the 1975 post season. The Reds of the 1970's will always be remembered as the Big Red Machine and 2 time champions. You are right that sometimes a team can't plan to deal with injuries, but last season was not one of those seasons. They could have made moves that would have been costly like Fister (great move by the Tigers) or a cheap move like Harden. They had another zero cost move available--Millwood. They let him go and he did pretty decent for Colorado. They did neither the cheap moves or the expensive moves. That's why the injuries are not an excuse for 2011. They had options. You have no argument. None.

When my ass is bleeding, it's hard to think that it is only intermittent. You are right. We have had the ebb. Now we could use some flow.

There can be no injury excuses in 2012 unless the team charter plane crashes. We have no pitching depth. Everyone knows it. Some kind of injury, minor or major will happen. With the lack of depth on our staff, a couple of minor injuries causing a couple of the guys to miss 3-4 starts each could be very devastating. Ben needs to get something done and his options are dwindling.

They constantly remind me of why I hate them so much.

iortiz, as usual, I am in full agreement. Our starting pitching is 3 deep. Saying that we lack depth would be an understatement. We only have 3 legitimate major league starters. Period. If one of them gets injured, it would be disastrous, but whining about it would not be justified. The problem is staring everyone in the face. Ben need to do something about it. Carlos Silva is not the answer unless the problem is that you need someone to take home the left overs from the after game spread.

Why would the Yankees screw us just once when they can screw us twice?

I don't remember who he said it to, but Willie Mays imparted to a young player one of his secrets for being great. He told the kid that he just tries to hold his own against the good pitchers, getting 1 hit in 3 or 4 ABs made him happy, but he feasted on everyone else. That's always the way it is for pitchers and batters alike. This kid is good. I'd love to have a 22 year old kid at 6'7" pumping easy gas at 97 with a good breaking ball.