a700hitter

Yeah, keep on trollin.

Blurbs and stories like this don't bode well for getting another starter. Also, they are so full of s*** about all the trade candidates available in July. On August 1st we'll get the song and dance about how the trade options were too expensive and yada yada yad not wanting to sacrifice the future for the short run yada yada yada.

^ I'm sure this was baseball related.

I read enough from you for one day. I don't need to re-read it. You can have the last word on this too.

So now the whole argument is about some statement made about 2010? Give me a break. I thought you just wanted to make sure that the effect of the injuries were not dismissed as a cliche? Make up your mind. Spinning circles round and round.

The 5th guy needs to be a good established starter-- not great. He needs to be a guy capable of taking the ball every 5th day and giving the team a chance to win and not missing a significant number of starts. Caros Silva and Padilla and Cook don't meet these requirements. If we start out with them in the rotation, if bard has a hiccup at the beginning of the season, a tremendous strain will immediately be put on the bull pen. Also, I think you are not giving enough of analysis to the effect on the pen of moving bard to the rotation. I think most of us are around the middle of the spectrum where the overall pitching in 2012 will be around the same as last year if we don't add another starter. If we add a starter, it should be markedly improved. We don't need to spend mega-millions.

I am hoping. Unless he blows up, he would be better than last years 4th and 5th starters, but will that improvement offset the decreased efficiency in the pen by him leaving the pen? That is and has been my concern about this. All that being said, Bard can't fill the 4th and 5th spots. We need another starter.

I was just being sensitive and thin-skinned when he told me that he laughs at me not with me. I need to toughen up. Yeah right.

What projections? Are there such projections? Who is stating them here, and do they have any validity at all? We don't know what he will do as a starter, but we know what h was as a reliever, and that spot has not been filled. I have a lot of hope for him as a starter as you can see from my consistent posts beginning before the season has ended. Do I acknowledge the gaping hole left in the bullpen? Yes, only an idiot wouldn't notice that. Back in the earlier thread

It was just an insult without further elaboration, and you are an otherwise likeable guy.

...and you can have the last word.

Honestly, I will not. BTW, I will call you on your cute little barbs at others too. You have been playing that cute little game for too long. I must admit that you are usually excellent at it, but yesterday and today, you stuck both feet in your mouth.

I see it It is mainly directed at the team, the FO etc, but it is mainly not at other posters, and when it is at other posters, it is rarely personal or unprovoked. When posters have gotten into it with UN, I have cautioned them not to play that game. We have no control over what others say, but we can do better, and I am trying.

Should I consider any of these to be personal insults? I count 5. Yes, I am surely paranoid.

I caught you with your pants down about the so-called "incongruity" -- which was nothing more than one of your subtle shots that never has anything to do with the topic at hand. We were discussing the Pineda trade and you look to give me a veiled shot about Bard. I didn't take your bait, and answered in good humor. No victim here. That wasn't good enough for you that I ignored your baiting, because you can never be ignored. You and E1 went onto bash the negativity about Bard. When confronted with longstanding consistent evidence from posts back to August about me being in favor of Bard being a starter, you scream that I am playing the victim card. If you want to accuse about being negative about stuff, get your facts straight. Talk sports, stay on topic, and stop you ******** gotcha games. You are great for statistical analysis. It enlightens everyone, but recently I haven't seen much of that, but you have bitched and whined and been nasty a lot. No victim here, because if that's how you want it to be, I can be a prick with the best of them. I am not optimistic about having two relievers converted to the rotation in the same season. I can't see that working. I want them to get another established starter, put Aceves back in the pen, and give Bard his shot to start. I disagree with those who want to leave Aceves in the rotation and put Bard back in the pen, so again, you are spinning and twisting the truth.

Vitriole directed at who... and why does that bother you? iortiz, I and others were right that the team was collapsing and needed to get pitching. We called that about September 1st. We were right that the FO and the manager and everyone in between was responsible. They are almost all gone. Oh, and in August, I was right that the team was considering converting Bard to a starter in 2012. We are yet to be proved right about 2012, but as I pointed out yesterday, you and the positive people agree with us that we need a starter, so I am not sure what anyone needs to be proved right in 2012, since we all seem to be in agreement. The only vitriole that I see in this forum is directed by one group of posters at another. I am disappointed that you have been one of the spewers.

It was a huge misstep precisely because they missed ony by 1 game. The need was clear. They were down 3 starting pitchers. They needed help. Almost no help was provided by the FO. They thought they had enough to make it through. They did not. That is precisely why the misstep was huge-- they missed the playoffs. The biggest reason for missing the playoffs was that a rotation with two starting pitchers could hold down the fort? Okay, if that's your opinion. Their failure to come up big was definitely a reason. So, now we are arguing about what was the "biggest cause" or "biggest reason"? I don't recall that being the argument, and I don't know what was the biggest cause. I do recall saying that there were several reasons for the collapse. IMO it was an organizational failure on all levels-- players, coaches, FO and everyone else except the food vendors. The FO bears its share of responsibility. First, you argue that injuries were the reason, now you are looking to throw it all off on Beckett and Lester? What don't you spin in a few more circles. The argument was whether injuries excuse the FO. I say it doesn't and I backed up why. You come back with it is mainly Lester's and Beckett's fault? They had been operating with 2 competent pitchers for more than two months. They had a big problem-- an obvious one. They did almost nothing to address it. and no one was throwing it "out the window on a nonsensical cliche". Injuries are an acknowledged reason for the collapse - a very big reason, but it does not excuse the FO from its responsibility for the collapse.

They didn't need to rebuild a rotation. They needed some patches.