a700hitter

It would be hard to do worse. Merely doing better will not be a complete vindication.

2012 did not happen in a vacuum. As I said earlier, a lot of fail culminated in the 2012 season. The three years plus leading up to 2012 were replete with one bad decision after another. The culmination of that was 2012. If you give them a pass on 2012, you are giving them a pass on everything leading up to it. I hope the FO is not as forgiving as you are.

:thumbdown

I wasn't making a direct comparison to the owners that preceded the cuirrent owners. In fact, I acknowledged that the Sox had been run by many idiots prior to current ownership. If you couple the fact that we have been run by many idiots before John Henry with the fact that the 2012 team had the highest payroll in team history, it makes the accomplishment of finishing last with the worst record in almost 50 years even more ignominious.

Once the big trade was made and the Sox accelerated their death spriarl. It was pretty obvious after the one aborted comeback attempt that Ortiz was not trying to get back on the field. There was no point to him coming back at that point and risking further injury. Ortiz didn't quit on the team. The FO threw in the towel and rightly so. I don't understand all the hubub over V's statement seems to be a fairly obvious fact.

Vizquel is a borderline Hall of Fame player who played the game the right way. He was never a troublemaker, so his comments and critcism make me sit up and take notice. In addition to the base running, the Jays teams were fundamentally unsound in all aspects.

What do you mean that Farrell "denied any merit to the Vizquel comments this year"? Vizquel made the comments, and he didn't deny them or back off them. You asked me upon what I based my opinion of the Jays reckless base running. I told you that my observations from many Jays games were concurred with by at least 2 sets of announcers and Vizquel. It's your prerogative to disagree with me, but I think you have known me long enough to know that I would have a pretty solid basis for making the statement.

Worst Red Sox record in almost 50 years with Henry at the helm. That's a fact. There wasn't one fact in your posts. That is par for the course.

Yeah, you put me in my place. Such a jackass.

I stated pure facts, and you come back with pure insults. Very typical for the forums biggest longest tenured troll.

He was an idiot then and proving himself to be an idiot now by running the Red Sox into the ground. A lot of fail had to go into putting together the worst record in almost 50 years. A lot of idiots have run the team in the last 50 years, but the 2012 team topped them all.

Let's get one thing off the table. I have no like or dislike of John Farrell. I liked Farrell as our pitching coach. I watched a lot of Jays games over the last two seasons and observed many of these poor decisions. Their base running was consistently reckless. I have heard the Yankee announcers and Sox announcers question the way the Jays executed their running game. Also, Omar Vizquel openly questioned/criticized the coaching with regard to the running game. That is a powerful indictment. Hopefully, Farrrell will not continue the same approach with the Red Sox. Hopefully, he will instill fundamentals. Like or dislike of Farrell is not an issue. Claiming that he was "the best manager currently under contract" as posted earlier by another poster just seems to me to be a huge overstatement.

They very often ran themselves out of innings, making 1st or 3rd outs at 3rd base or at home with less than 2 outs. That's not aggressiveness. It's poor fundamentals.

Henry was one of the idiots that ran that organization.

I don't say that he stinks because of the Jays record. I say that he stinks, because in two years, his teams have been atrocious at executing the fundamentals and they ran the bases recklessly. I don't think he taught them anything.

Farrell is the best manager under contract? He stinks. If the Sox hadn't been tipping their hand with their open lusting for Farrell since late July, he'd probably have gotten fired this off season. I continue to be shocked by the defense by Red Sox fans of Cherries who dragged the team to last place and it's worst record in almost 50 years. Until he starts to prove himself to be part of the solution, I will consider him to be part of the problem.

There are many bush league players that involve no risk, e.g Nate Spears or one of the bums we got from the Cubs. Aviles has some value as a utility IF. We should not havegivenany any MLB value. It should have been a minor league roster filler-type. We have lots of guys who will never sniff the majors.

It was ridiculous, because we didn't have to give up either prospects or a major leaguer. We got neither from the Cubs for Theo. We should have been able to get Farrell for the same garbage-- a bush leaguer with no major legue future. Aviles could have been used to get something of use like a bull pen arm or he could have been packaged with other playrs in a bigger deal. Your last statement about Scutaro and Oswalt is a twisted recollecion of my position. I very clearly said several times last off season that we needed starting pitching. Ideally, they should have gotten 2 starters, but 1 was a an absolute necessity. That was the drum the I beat the entire off season. I watched as one pitcher after the other went to other teams. All that was left at the end was Edwin Jackson and Oswalt. I preferred Jackson, but then Jackson got signed by the Nats. Oswalt turned out terrible, but even if they had spent $5 million on him, the season could not have turned out worse. It is beyond me why Sox fans will defend this unproven rube, Cherington. This is a guy who was at the helm when the Sox sunk to last place with their worst record in 50 years. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. He needs to prove himself. People are trying to defend Cherington by denigrating Aviles. I am not making any case for Aviles' greatness. I am just noting that this was an overpay for Farrell. I would have been happier if we got Darwin Barney from the Cubs for Theo, but we didn't. Aviles is as good as, maybe better than, Barney. We got recycled trash instead. It's beyond me why we couldn't just send the same to Toront.

And I would not have given up Salty for Farrell either. This was a ridiculous trade. And giving Farrell a 3 year contract is pretty stupid too. Ben has a long way to go to prove himself as worthy of his position.

The managers actually speak very little to the players. It's better to have coaches that can speak the same language as the players.

Dice K was a waste of money. These things you mention are pure nonsense.

Other teams get our GM for bush leaguers, but we not only trade a guy from the major league roster but a guy that was our starting SS for a second rate mnager. Disparage Aviles if you want, but those are the facts. I am not worried about losing him, but our guys are just asshats when it comes to negotiations.

IUntil he makes some good moves, he has been a bit of a boob.

What do Jay fans know. They are Hockey fans.

I'drather have givn them Carpenter or Stewart or any number of minor league guys. He's worht no more than a Nate Spears.