example1

It would be ideal if Cox could have a few years, but I don't think that means you necessarily don't give the kid a shot in ST. If he's good enough he's good enough, if not then he won't be put into the position. We have a lot of young pitchers and the Sox will certainly try to have different development trajectories for each of them. Perhaps Cox is mature for his age. He did graduate from Rice, didn't he? A 4 year college ball player at a good baseball school certainly doesn't hurt.

You painted him to be at best average. I think at best he's above average, if not well above average and apparently the Sox do too. He's not Ryne Sandberg. You think these numbers are reasonable for next year:? .261/.316/.351, 8 HR, 25 2B and 48 RBI. You think he can get a .667 OPS? Those are Sandberg's numbers from 1983, his age 23 season and his SECOND full season in the bigs. Pedroia hasn't had a season in the bigs yet, but I imagine if he had and he put up those numbers you would have had him relegated to the bench. Sandberg had a .796 career OPS. Think Pedroia can get that? I don't see it as unreasonable.

So you clearly don't think the Red Sox are a threat, huh? If you did then of course you would be worried about the playoffs, cause the Twins, White Sox and Tigers are still there to challenge for a WC spot. No respect for the Sox despite their recent upgrades, the fact that they led the AL East with essentially the same team for much of last year (minus, of course the new SS, #1-2 starter, RF and the three new RPs) and the further development of their young guys? Man oh man... I hope the Yankees miss the playoffs this year.

True, until after Matsuzaka's first MLB start at which point people will realize that every one of his pitches is as good or better than Wang's best. Just sayin'... he's coming, as advertized. We will re-evaluate in a few months, but this kid is going to be a dominant pitcher unlike ones we've seen in awhile in MLB in terms of the bredth of his repetoire and ability to throw 95.

Okay, this is all about opinion so I'll throw in my 2 cents... I'm ranking this on how I think the pitchers will be, rather than the order they will necessarily be in. Mussina Wang > Beckett Pettitte = Schilling Johnson = Wakefield Igawa I see two clearcut Sox advantages and one for the Yankees. All-in-all though I think their starting pitching is pretty good. I like the Sox pitching better for the next few years, that's for sure. I don't think Wang's upside is much higher than he's at now, as he's a gb pitcher and that's essentially what he's getting at this point. He's not going to have a 2.00 ERA and 200+ k's in any season. Beckett, Papelbon and Matsuzaka could all do that. Finally, I suppose I should explain how I could have Matsuzaka as better than Mussina. I think they're actually pretty close but Matsuzaka has some particularly nasty stuff. We'll check in later in the season, but I think that those who have seen him believe he will be very good. Jorge Cantu, when asked by an ESPN commentator where on a scale of 1-10 Matsuzaka would fit in, Cantu surprised him by saying "Oh, he's up there. Probably a 9, possbly a 10". Mussina is a good pitcher but he's no longer over powering. I think Wang/Matsuzaka and Mussina/Schilling are the best potential matchups in the group. Although a Randy Johnson/Papelbon duel wouldn't be bad either There is a reason that the Sox have had their eyes on Monster since 1999 Koishen and that Theo says he actually hoped Matsuzaka wouldn't do well in the WBC so he might stay more under the radar. The Yankees bid 30+ and the Mets 40+, so I think we're talking about one of the games elite pitchers. Oh yeah, he's also one of the healthiest and most projectable pitchers around. His motion is smooth and seems very fluid and he's just a pitching machine. The sox will slow down how much he's used but they also said they weren't going to completely change the way he pitches. He's an innings eater, pitching lots of CG's over his career. They aren't worried that its a sign that his arm is likely to go, they see it as a sign that he's in excellent pitching condition.

Where would I remember Dave O'Brien from? I know he does work with ESPN and the World Cup. Can anyone find a clip of him anywhere online? I don't remember his voice...

Welcome to the site. What the hell are you talking about? Pedroia sucks? How many at-bats has he had? how many have you watched? Youkilis at 2B? They should just put another pole there and hope that other teams hit it off the pole and it bounces to Hinske at 1B. You go out of your way to add Hinske to the lineup, but you manage to leave a guy with 30 HR power like Pena on teh bench??? If I'm putting one random bench player on the field its Pena, and I'm putting him at 1B or putting Ortiz at 1B. Hinske is nothing to write home about.

He may have the power of david Ekstein, but he has the speed of Carl Crawford (or at least beltran). Eckstein's doubles will (and have) turn to triples with Jacoby.

They used it as an argument, but I don't think it changed their mind about whether or not they were going to trade him given what they were offered. They KNEW they should get more than the Yankees got. He's better and younger than Sheffield and he's not coming off an injury. No matter WHAT the Yankees got that would have been the case.

Yup, he's hitting 95 there. He can reach back when he needs to.

BS. The Sox have always wanted a lot for Manny. Its not new that they would want top prospects and Gary Sheffield being traded to the Tigers does not change, in any way, shape, or form the Red Sox ability to judge what other teams were willing to give up. Its not like it was the last night of the winter meetings and LL and JH are sitting in the hotel bar, wondering whether Broxton and Loney are enough for Manny, and Theo was whining that the Yankees got 3 prospects for Sheffield and he HAS to get that much, he absolutely MUST get that much. The Yankees got a nice deal for Sheffield. The same deal dd not exist for the Red Sox. The Red Sox would not have wanted the players the Yankees got enough to get them in exchange for Manny. Manny's a better and younger player. If they don't naturally ask for more than the Sheffield deal (with or without knowledge of the Sheffield deal) then they're stupid.

10 posts and no counter-stats? Okay. I posted this earlier: http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205676&highlight=Nomo#post205676 Someone on another site posted these K/BB ratios for players coming to the US. Nomo: 1.72 Irabu: 2.90 Ishii: 2.36 Matsuzaka: 4.83 That's not even close, truth be told. He/she then compared that to the best MLB #'s from 06: Curt Schilling: 6.54 Johan Santana: 5.21 Mike Mussina: 4.91 Control and K's are trends that tend to stay with players across different levels of competition. The ability to make people swing and miss, and the ability to throw the ball over the plate instead of missing the plate, are skills that don't leave you. Deception is something you have or you don't. It may fluctuate a bit as competition gets tougher, but there is nothing to say that MLB hitters would have hit more than 5% of the balls that the Japanese players missed. There is no way to quantify it without really guessing. Also, here's a google video of the history of Matsuzaka/Matsui at-bats and Matsuzaka/Ichiro at-bats. He's got sick stuff to both of those lefties. His changeup is devistating as is his fastball. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4513631953510592857&q=matsuzaka&hl=en The entire thing is in japapnese, but at the end they have a funny animation with the Sox schedule, with the early season games against the Mariners and yankees highlighted. Good stuff.

They beat the "system" which, this time, had Boras standing in the way. Agreed. Nobody thought it was possible to pay someone who could be the best pitcher in baseball only 8 mill a season in this market. A VERY nice job. They didn't blink as time went down, they were assertive but polite AND they were smart enough to make the bid in the first place. So, between the posting fee and salary we're paying a little over 17ma season for a guy who is a tremendously polished professional pitcher. We'll see how good he is, but he's around for his entire prime. I've watched everything this guy has on the internet (I think). He's very, very good. I haven't seen a pitcher with as many + pitches in a long, long time. I think he'll do very well and will be the #2 pitcher this year. His salary (not counting the posting) IS a steal, and everyone is at least neutral on the deal. Yes its a lot of money, but nearly everyone was doubting that the sox would get more than 3 years. They got 6. They blew every other team out of the water and they signed him to the contract that they wanted. A deal like this is the only way such a high bid could work and they estimated the amount he would accept, his desire to come to the states and Boras's inability to get him back to Japan. They did this all under the radar without anything coming out, leaving people to guess that they bid 38m only hours before it was announced. I think they do deserve kudos for playing poker if you look at the entire process. This FO can woo player damn well. The same day that Lugo has a press conference the FO is flying back on its private jet to get matsuzaka to a physical. This team has added 4 impact (i.e., they will be important) players in Drew, Lugo, Okajima and Matsuzaka.

I really think you're overestimating the difference between these teams from last year. The Yankees got lucky to deal Wright. They dealt Sheff in a fair deal. I am not at all threatened by it as a Sox fan, other than that Detroit now has Sheff--who I always feared as a player. I guess I consider Pettitte a top line SP, but if he was so top-line then why did the Yankees let him go? He's a very good pitcher. He's not dominant but Pettitte, Mussina, Wang, Johnson and someone else is a pretty good rotation. Nobody who is dominant, no real anchor unless RJ steps up again. I see a lot of veterans who are doing their own thing... as usual in NY. Giambi, Damon, A-Rod, Sheffield, Abreu, RJ, Mussina, etc.? Imported stars. I would much rather have Schilling, Matsuzaka, Beckett, Papelbon and Wakefield/Lester (who has said he will be at SP... but whom I would use as lefty long relief to keep him healthy). I LOVE the young core of Matsuzaka, Beckett, and Papelbon for the next 3-4 years. I think next year the teams will be close head-to-head, as usual. A lot depends on if Manny is playing or if the Sox are able to improve their bullpen. If I'm the Red Sox I think I'm more likely to trade a young starter (Bowden or Bard) than an OF because they have a few young starters for the future, they need something to help them now, and young starters appear to be about the most valuable commodity (i.e., a better return for next year or the year after). They have control of Crisp and WMP for a few years at reasonable prices, they're young so they're useful to build a team around. I also think WMP is an intimidating bat to have on the bench. Both WMP and Coco deserve a full year on a functioning team to evaluate them. WMP should be batting RH off the bench, platooning with Drew and giving drew a rest to keep him healthy. Coco should have an everyday spot in the bottom of the order where he can try to use his speed. If they stay healthy I predict 95 runs for Coco this season. Anyway, it should be a hell of a year.

Good point ORS. Good point. The Yankees paid 22.4m for Pettitte? ha ha ha ha

West Coast time baby! Gotta love it. Greatest sports timezone by far.

The negotiations continue??? translators involved? hmmm http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/?p=792

Yes. If you want more of an explanation look at one of the other threads.

But, even if Manny's agent wanted him to go, really really bad, he couldn't just leave? It's not his "legal right" to leave a contract without compensation by, say, trying to argue that his right to work had been limited because he couldn't just leave his contract whenever he wanted to? I mean, its almost as if contracts are used rather than sheer opinion to ensure that a player will be around for awhile. I mean, I guess that because of contracts we know that Varitek and Beckett will go to spring training this season, rather than suing the MLB for keeping them from going to Japan. Long story short, Jacksonian's theory doesn't make sense. There could be some lawsuit hiding in there someplace, but I don't think its that people can't break their contracts to get more money elsewhere.