example1

I must say that offseason baseball coverage is pretty s*****. ESPN should interrupt their "important" musings on whether or not AI will get traded to another non-contending basketball team for 10 minutes to show one of the unheralded players in all of sports doing what he does best: lying. f***ing show some boras, geez. I have no idea what he would have to say, other than that negotations are over and that Matsuzaka is going home.

supposedly it was 30 minutes ago... I can't find anything anywhere yet.

Personally, I'm not that interested in thinking Boras is an ass. I'm interested in watching Matsuzaka pitch for the Red Sox next season.

Sorry to triple post, I just woke up. Here's the line from the Herald article that makes me certain this is just a sox FO plot, to release the worst case scenario to the public and presenting the reason that the deal fell through to remind Boras that he, not the Sox, will look like the ass when this is all over: However, the well-placed source blamed Boras for stubbornly being unable to get over the flaws in the Japanese posting system, saying that he has been unwilling to negotiate and that he has acted disinterested in even making a deal. This is some petty, high-schoolish s*** here. It's akin to saying "I heard from bobby that Jane won't go out with him because Jane is a cruel bitch who doesn't like Boys. She's made it hard for him to get to know her." It may be true, it may not, but it sure sounds petty and contrived to me. It sounds like posturing and there's reason to believe its just that. I can see it now: Sox official: "put something in there ripping on Boras." Herald: "We're not the Globe!" SO: "Exactly! That makes you guys seem more credible." H: "Fine. What are you thinking?" SO: "Well, no quotes or anything. How about an unnamed source? How about something along the lines of 'if Boras doesn't get his s*** together he's going to go home empty handed, because he's a stubborn son of a bitch. I don't even think he wants to get a deal done, that bastard." H: "So, something like 'Boras for stubbornly being unable to get over the flaws in the Japanese posting system, saying that he has been unwilling to negotiate and that he has acted disinterested in even making a deal?' " SO: yes, excellent. Remember, no quotes, just unprofessional journalistic paraphrasing using unjournalistic terms like 'stubbornly' and 'unwilling to negotiate' and 'disinterested'. H: "Sigh. Fine."

Why be posted then? Why have the "goodbye" ceremony? Why start saying he's coming the the US to play? It sure doesn't look to me like this is a guy who believes the only way he'll pitch here is if he makes more money. This is his DREAM JOB man, and as someone who does NOT have his dream job, I'll tell you its partly about the money, but not all about the money. Matsuzaka is a god in Japan. He's rich already. He'll be rich if he signs with the Sox for 10m a season. He'll be rich if he stays in Japan. It doesn't matter that much. He's got an enormous payday coming, the question is whether he wants to spend 2 seasons in Japan or if he wants to play in the US next season. How many minor league players do you think would give up a little bit off the "big payday" to get into the majors more quickly? Why would this guy want to pitch one more pitch in NPB? What is there left to prove?

More media driven posturing? Perhaps a move to make it seem like the initial Globe based media posturing wasn't just posturing? Who knows? http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171334&format=&page=1 Talks have essentially broken down. Even though they've really only just started (with Boras and the Sox being busy with Winter Meetings etc.,). Apparently Boras is pissed about the posting system and the process itself. He doesn't like not being able to negotiate with multiple teams. Tough s***. I'm wondering if the whole process was thrown off when the MLB proclaimed that Seibu could not pay anything to Matsuzaka and that the MLB would be paying close attention to the negotiations and the exchange of money. It is widely known that Seattle didn't end up paying most of the $ it put up for Ichiro and even Baseball America was speculating that this would be a twist in the process... up to the point when MLB came out and "clarified" the point. I think that really f***ed things up. So I'm still confident a deal will be struck. What I see happening is Boras telling Matsuzaka to go back to Japan. The Red Sox will stick with the offer they made, perhaps raising it to a "reasonable" 10m a season. Boras will plead with matsuzaka to go back, but Matsuzaka's desire to play in the MLB will be the ultimate deciding factor. This all has to happen in the next few days and its going to be crazy to watch if it all goes down. I will be disappointed if the Red Sox are not able to sign a pitcher who is, aside from money, sitting in their locker room already. I have no doubt that this pitcher will be one of the better MLB pitchers and will definitely make this team better. I don't think I'm the only one, but I know I prefer to watch pitching over hitting almost any day of the week. I get excited to watch starts by guys like Beckett, Schilling, Pedro (back in the day), Lester (cause I want to see his good stuff), Papelbon, etc., I get bored watching games pitched by Kyle Snyder and the other junk they put on the mound. With Matsuzaka the Sox would have 4 starters that I would go out of my way to watch (i.e., try to get off work early enough to see the game). I don't think I'm alone on that one. Get it done Sox. Get it done.

I don't mind you bringing it up. Arroyo would have put up Arroyo-like numbers last year for the sox. Down the stretch he would have held up, pitching adequately for him to be the ace of the staff for the last 2/3rds of August and all of September. The Sox may have won two or three more games during that time and would still have had a mediocre record and would have finished out of the playoffs. We will know whether the trade is good or not this year and next. If Arroyo wins an NL Cy Young and WMP shits the bed then obviously it was a bad trade. If WMP hits 28 HR and the Sox win the WS nobody is going to be missing Arroyo. That may not happen until next season, as WMP looks to be a 4th OF this season, which is right where he should be at 24 years old and playing on a team good enough to sit him.

Jeter is the classiest guy there. He NEVER looks bad, in the media, on bad plays, at the plate... never. Other players I respect: matsui, posada, rivera.

There have been very few players who are as good at pure hitting than Manny Ramirez. I mean, he gets unequivocable praise as valuable, first ballot hall of famer etc., despite being AWFUL in the field each and every year since he came in. He makes UP in value offensively to get to the point where the other greats were overall. Manny is one of the few hitters who appears to be able to choose what he does at the plate. Against mediocre pitchers I think he literally takes pitches that he can't hit for a double or home run. You watch him take pitches down the middle because he's waiting for one on the inside. He's crazy good. I don't think its necessarily true that there have been people as good as or better than Manny but not Rivera. Nearly every year that Rivera has pitched there has been a closer who was at least in the same class of dominance. Every year it seems there is some pitcher who is totally dominant. The difference with Rivera is that he's the first closer who has been dominant every year for this long. It's not only the level of dominance, its the length of dominance too. Rivera was the first to do what he's doing, as there isn't a long history of closer dominance, or even closer usage. Manny is compared to a history of hitters, dating back to before even Ty Cobb. Rivera is compared back 30 years at the most. Don't take this as a dis on Rivera. He is the number ONE reason they have been so dominant the last 10 years or so. Absolutely, no doubt about it. He is tremendous and irreplacable. Pre-First-Ballot hall of famer, true gamer, pitcher I want on the mound when it matters etc., The yankee mystique will be completely different once that bastard is off the mound!

The Cubs are at the center of it all this offseason. God help them, I hope it pays off.

The "closer" postion is such a risky proposition. There are very few elite ones out there and its hard to know if CC is one that you give up multiple good prospects for.

Is that 9.75 over TWO years? That's a steal in this market. I would have assumed Payton was 6 million a year, easy.

Could the Red Sox owners just purchase the Seibu lions?

It sounds just as (im)plausable as the Yankee fans wet dream that Boras will use his own money to pony up for Matsuzaka so he can bring him to the US. Let's just go with it. :dunno:

I do. I think that 12 x 5 is both reasonable and respectful. 12m is a lot of money and it is what the elite players make. If the sox put 12m on the table and say "that's it, 5 x 12, our final offer with the following incentives" then Matsuzaka would be seen as a jerk for turning it down, particularly in Japan where he would have to return and, alas, watch as his contract is not purchased by Boras and he does not come to the united states, he only returns to Seibu complaining that he didn't get an extra 6 million over 5 years while his team lements the 51.1 they could have had.

Christ! A drunken Gom. ORS and I will step out for a little bit.

You're the only person who seems to be discussing this "purchase Matsuzaka's contract" idea, as if its realistic. I don't think it is. If I were Matsuzaka's agent what would I shoot for? I would make sure that my player was in the majors next year with a realistic possibility that he will be a FA within 5 years or less. I would make sure that he makes considerably more than he did last year. I would also make sure that Seibu gets their money. Again, Matsuzaka's chances of getting hurt are too high to pass up the guaranteed 60 million or so that I am betting the sox will offer. SIXTY MILLION dollars. If you turn that down and you're Boras, you're an ass. I imagine a 5 year, 12m dollar deal is more than fair. You are harping on this 8 million dollar offer and I think that's not a realistic number (I know its the number that was 'reported') just like it was 'reported' that the Yankees won the bidding and the sox won with a 45 m bid. It's just not true. The Sox and Boras have been busy doing things other than matsuzaka discussions. The Sox signed JD Drew and Lugo and still seek a closer. They haven't been in constant failed discussions with matsuzaka. Those discussions will START now.

You're all good sbf. It's okay to get off topic sometimes... maybe I was just moody.

A page and a half of crap. Nice. I don't mean to call all the people or their comments crap, but can't we stick to baseball discussion please? This is the "Dodgers or Padres, who gets Manny" page, and after a long day I see there's activity and I find THIS??!?!?! There are other threads to argue about... whatever it is you're all arguing about. ======================== That said, I think the trade market for Manny Ramirez is essentially dry. IF he plays then that's a benefit for us. If he doesn't play then we might as well sell him at eighty-cents on the dollar.

Someone from Japan on that board made a really good point when discussing what Matsuzaka and the Japanese public are hoping for him to make. One person said, essentially, won't the Japanese public and Matsuzaka compare his contract with the contract's of baseball's best players, demanding that he get Roy Oswalt or Jason Schmidt money? The poster responded that what is actually more important is how Matsuzaka's salary compares to other star japanese players in the US. So, for instance, what will matter is how Matsuzaka is paid compared to Ichiro or Matsui, Okajima or Otsuka. The Japense public at large are not aware of the nuances of the American baseball payroll climate. They are not a factor in how much Matsuzaka will get or expect to make. Babe Ruth could have held out for a million dollars and probably could have got it, even in that day, but he didn't know that he could have maximized his profits by sitting out or threatening to sit out. Matsuzaka is operating under the same rhuberic, no matter how much Boras wishes the situation were otherwise. The "rumors" about the Sox not being close on a Matsuzaka deal came from the Globe. The Globe gets its news from the FO, and it is certainly in the FO's best interest to tell Boras that they're not afraid or unprepared to walk away. At the same time, to assume that Boras spent more than 5 minutes over the past 2 weeks on the matsuzaka is to assume that he sent his clone to the Winter meetings. In other words, both the Red Sox and Scott Boras have been busy. With matsuzaka coming back today, and the WM's over, both Boras and the Sox can addres, likely for the first time fully, Matsuzaka's future with the Red Sox. There will be the push-pull like normal, but its a fit and it will happen. It's a no brainer, right? Anyone remember how Theo re-signing last year seemed like a no brainer too? It was all but assured. Let's hope they've learned from that.