yankees228

I know everyone loves Edwar, and I can't say I was unimpressed after his first outing, but it doesn't seem like he had great control of his fastball at any point. Obviously some of that could have been attributed to his severe lack of work, so we'll see how he does this time (if he gets used).

Even if he said those things, the first one is anything but a lock.

OK, well, I completely understand where you're coming from by picking the Guardians to take two out of three from the Yankees, especially considering the Guardians are at home. However, the pitching matchups do favor the Yanks, at least to some extent. Friday: Hughes - Carmona...I'd definitely give the advantage to Carmona, but Phil might be able to keep the Yankees in the game, now that he's gotten the first start out of the way. However, I'd say Cleveland takes this one. Saturday: Mussina - Byrd...This one is very close. Mussina has been so inconsistent, but Byrd hasn't been too much better. It's hard to say here, but I like the chances of the lefties in the Yankees lineup against Byrd. Sunday: Pettitte - Westbrook...The edge has to go to the Yanks here, in my opinion. Pettitte, although he has had some difficulties lately, has found a way to throw a good game nearly every time out (with the exception of the two home starts vs. OAK and LAA). Westbrook hasn't been very good, and with the way the Yankees are swinging the bats, they could take this one. This series is obviously going to be difficult, especially considering it's on the road, but I don't think the Yankees will get swept (I think they'll win Sunday). I also think it's possible to take two out of three, but that will all depend on what Mussina gives them on Saturday. I don't think they'll beat Carmona on Friday, so we'll see what happens after that, although you never know. This should be an entertaining series, and the Yankees first true test since the ASB.

That was my point, in response to Jackson's post.

OK, well, first of all, I admitted earlier that 'disapointment' was the wrong word. On top of that, I said numerous times in my initial post that this was not a direct reaction to his start last night. To prove that, I didn't include last night's start in any of the numbers I provided. In your post you're just telling me that he is "one of the best pitchers in the AL". This is something that I definitely disagree with. Lets take a look at some of the guys you're putting Wang ahead of, in terms of this year. Danny Haren: ERA - 2.46, IP - 161, H - 131, B - 43, K - 127 Kelvim Escobar: ERA - 2.79, IP - 145, H - 127, B - 45, K - 111 Eric Bedard: ERA - 3.09, IP - 154.1, H - 122, BB - 48, SO - 192 John Lackey: ERA - 3.11, IP - 153.1, H - 147, BB - 43, K - 123 Fausto Carmona: ERA - 3.17, IP - 144.2, H - 141, BB - 42, K - 87 Josh Beckett: ERA - 3.31, IP - 138.2, H - 127, BB - 29, K - 132 C.C. Sabathia: ERA - 3.52, IP - 174, H - 183, BB - 26, K - 154 J. Verlander: ERA - 3.60, IP - 140, H - 119, BB - 49, K - 126 J. Vazquez: ERA - 3.64, IP - 150.2, H - 128, BB - 36, K - 138 That's nine guys, and it might not even be the whole list. All of these guys, except Sabathia, have less hits than innings pitched. Wang, on the other hand, has more. Five of these guys have ERA's under 3.20. All of these pitchers, except Carmona, have more than 100 K's. I understand Wang is not a strikeout pitcher, but that is just another reason why he is not better than some of these guys. You can also make a case for guys like Daisuke Matsuzaka, Joe Blanton, Roy Halladay, and some others. I was talking to ATG13 about people overrating C.M. Wang. This is a perfect example. You said that you might take him over anybody in the AL except Santana. Give me a break. He's not even close to some of these other guys. Also, I understand that Wang had a good year last year, but this is part of my point. He's regressed. The slider and change may have improved, but the sinker has regressed (or is just not as effective). Maybe you didn't read my post? Maybe you just saw the title and decided that it is "idiocy" to critique C.M. Wang? I don't disagree, he is one of the better pitchers on the Yankees' staff, and quite possibly the best, but maybe this is the problem.

Speaking of Rivera, maybe a pitch that Wang should considering developing is a bit of a cut fastball. If he could learn to put a little bit of cut on his fastball it would really be a nice addition to his pitch selection, especially when he is looking to get lefties out. When Wang tries to throw that Greg Maddux style run back fastball against lefties over the inside corner, the hitter, if he sees the fastball coming inside, basically knows that it will come back over the plate. However, if he develope another FB which he cut, then that would make a nice counter pitch to his two seamer. That, along with a better developed change, should really help him get the lefties out.

OK...the Tigers have lost, the Mariners have won. The Guardians are up one in the seventh. So the Tigers and the Mariners are now tied for the wild card lead, and the Yankees remain a half a game back (if my math is correct).

I agree with a lot of your points. Unfortunately, whether it's due to his finger nail issue, or whatever, he's also having some control issues. But going away from the numbers for a second, the last bunch of times where I've watched Wang, he just doesn't seem sharp at any point. He seems to be all over the place (in the strike zone), and he seems to not get the amount of grounders that he got last year. Those BAA's that I showed though have to be at least a little bit alarming. That's pretty high for any type of pitcher. I've been impressed with how he's developed his slider as well, but it's almost as if as the slider gets better the sinker loses a little bit of effectiveness. I'm not really sure what to make of it all, but this is just my opinion on the matter. I understand it's a little bit unconventional, so I also understand that I'm not going to find a lot of people to agree with me. By the way, I agree that it's important that he's gives them innings, but it seems like there is a sacrifice with Wang pitching those innings.

Hmm, he's a strange guy. And now he's using "technical" terms to explain the struggles of Kyle Farnsworth. How about we just say that everything is in the middle of the plate. Eh, this is great, Kyle dominates when his team is down 11 runs. EDIT: Actually he didn't even pitch too well. Zaun and Stairs both hit the ball hard.

lol, what happened? I'm watching the Mets game now. Did he just leave the booth or something?

I'm not necessarily looking for a response as to why it's not talked about. I'm just looking more for peoples feelings about him. A lot of Yankees fans look at him as the ace of the staff, and a key contributor for years to come. However, the stuff a stated above is extremely alarming in my opinion. I'm not looking to compare to anybody else. I'm only looking at him, and, more or less, using some of those numbers to predict future successes or failures. Wins tell me that the team has a good offense. Some of the statistics I've listed tell me how well the pitcher has actually done.

I understand that I'm probably going to get killed here by the fellow Yankee fans on this board, and maybe even by the Red Sox fans, but, in my opinion, Wang has been a bit of a disapointment so far this year. I understand that he is among the major league leaders in wins, but we all know that that is a poor metric to define a pitcher's success. He's had the benefit of a great deal of run support this year, but as the Yankees begin to play the more difficult stretch of there schedule, the games that Wang was winning early in the year may turn to losses. Overall he has a solid ERA, but that is mainly due to a few really good starts. Obviously you can't take away his really good starts, but the overall picture is much more important. For what it's worth, this is not necessarily a reactionary post to tonight's performance, however I think this is good timing for a thread like this. Wang's splits have me extremely concerned about his future performance. He has really struggled so far this year on the road. His WHIP goes up from 1.10 to 1.41. His GO/AO (ground outs/air outs) goes down from 2.59 to 2.18. This is a concerning stat, especially from Wang who relies so heavily on keeping the ball on the ground. Maybe the scariest stat of all is that his BAA goes up from .288 to .350 when he pitches on the road. A .350 BAA is more like a stat that you would see from a AAAA player rathen than from an ace. Just to prove how meaningless his W/L record, he winning percentage on the road is .857 compared to a .636 winning percentage at home. Another huge problem for Wang this year has been left handed batters. Left handed hitters are hitting .332 while right handed hitters are hitting .297. Neither is good, but the first one is downright awful. His WHIP increases to 1.34 against lefties, while it's a much more respectable 1.13 against righties. his GO/AO goes down from 3.08 against righties to 2.00 against lefites. Lefties are also slugging .419 which is over .100 points higher than righties are. Wang has also had difficulty pitching out of the stretch this year, as almost all of his numbers go the wrong way once players get on base. Wang's stats with runners in scoring position are especially alarming. His BAA is .356, and hitter are slugging .434. His WHIP with RISP is 1.54. On top of that, he simply isn't pitching well late in games. In late innings of close games (per mlb.com) his BAA is .667, while hitters are slugging an amazing 1.188 off him. His WHIP, and this is not a mistake, is 6.00. I'm not putting a lot of weight on the close game part, because I'm not a big fan of the clutch theories out there, but I do put a lot of weight on the late part. Wang is clearly tiring earlier than he should, and, considering the state of the Yankees bullpen, this is a huge issue. On top of everything else, you would think that Wang would be decent when he falls behind in the count, because he can throw a sinker on 2-0 or 3-1 which looks like it's middle of the plate, then drops below the knees on turns into a week groundball. This has not been the case. When Wang is behind in the count his BAA is .396, while hitters are slugging .416 against him. His WHIP is 1.76 in these situations. Obviously, I don't expect any pitcher to be great when he's behind in the count (that's the whole point of getting ahead of the hitter), but I'd expect Wang, due to his strengths, to be better then this. By the way, just to prove that this is not a reactionary thread to tonight's performance, none of these numbers include tonight's outing. I understand this is a lot of numbers, and it might not be the smoothest thing to read, but if you take the time to read it I think you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm interested on what you guys have to say on Wang, because he doesn't seem to be a point of discussion (of course it's a Red Sox board lol, so he wouldn't be, but I mean in the Yankees forum). EDIT: The thread title should obviously be 'of' instead of 'on'. Mods feel free to make the correction.

Seattle is winning 7-3 right now, so it looks like they're going to leap frog the Yankees. Detroit is losing 3-1 to the D-Rays, but there is a long way to go in that one, especially with the Rays bullpen. The Guardians are up 1-0 over the Chisox early.

In all seriousness though, Wang just doesn't have it tonight, and with the way Halladay is pitching, this may be a lost cause. It's hard to sweep a team on the road, especially a team that has been playing extremely well in their ballpark like the Blue Jays are.

Oh, common, why are the f***ing Blue Jays playing so hard against the Yankees?!?!?! I bet when they play the Red Sox or the Tigers they're going to let them win!

Lately he seems to be up in the zone more often then not. It's a little bit of a concern in my opinion.