Masataka Yoshida’s Shoulder Injury Threatens Season Start and Trade Value

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

Yoshida and a bag of cash to Arizona for Jordan Montgomery! Arizona owner wants Montgomery gone and we want yoshida moved 

I'd do it.

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd do it.

You guys crack me up always advocating for JH to pay some of his hard earned money on another Red Sox player to play for someone else, and then going out, and paying someone else even more money to play for the Red Sox. The Red Sox already have a one year pitcher in Gio, and now you want another one in Monty, who most likely opt out of his contract anyway.🙈🤭

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd advocate for Masa to leave and be replaced by internal options instead of FA ones. 

Yes, but the deal mentioned here was for a pitcher.

20 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd advocate for Masa to leave and be replaced by internal options instead of FA ones. 

That is fine with me, too- better even, but I seriously doubt sany takers are out there, at least until they see how he does after surgery.

Getting another big salary, who pitches, seems like a more likely way to shed Yoshi from the roster.

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

Let's face it, this is just one more reason for them to punt again.

"Things just didn't line up for us this year, but there will come a time they do, and it's coming soon." - Sam Kennedy, January, 2025. 

I certainly think they may view this year as a punt or more like a "quick kick" as it will be disguised as a real non punt play.

However, I really think are "there," now, and one could even argue we could have been there, this year, with just no Sale trade and a different SP'er signing.

Sam, body-surfing again: "Not this one, the next one!"

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd advocate for Masa to leave and be replaced by internal options instead of FA ones. 

Why?

Yoshida had an .825 OPS on August 19.  After that point it was .608 through the rest of the season.  It’s possible that was when his shoulder issues started.  
 

If healthy, an .825 OPS from Yoshida seems possible, and IMO is perfectly acceptable.  People have wished we retained Schwarber, but his OPS in Philadelphia is .832.  I don’t think the barrier for unacceptable performance from a DH sits between .825 and .832..

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That's some fine Pollyannalytics, sir!

Comparing Yoshida's possible to Schwarber's real, and tossing out games played, Park Factor etc!

Well done! 

If Yoshida didn’t have shoulder surgery, it would be more suspect.  But we do know he injured his shoulder and that definitely would have impacted his hitting.  The man actually is a good hitter whose numbers in Japan are similar to several other players who have come over to the USA and been successful.  And he absolutely was hitting well this year until August 19.  It’s extremely possible his shoulder issues started around that date if not actually on it.

Id like to have used OPS+, as Fenway (105) was slightly better for hitters than Citizens Bank (102).  But unfortunately those numbers are not available for partial seasons.

Yoshida might be overpaid.  But I think he’s also undervalued…

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'd argue that playing .400 ball after the ASB does not really suggest being "there", unless we're using Advanced Pollyannalytics...

We'd have probably made the playoffs with Sale, and even subbing just Stroman for Gio.

That might not be "there," but some could argue so.

It makes more sense, to me, if we end up paying off much of Yoshi's contract by taking back a pitcher's salary, instead of just cash.

I'm not sure Monty has "plus value," so topping other team offers might not be what harmony is suggesting. Any Monty trade might be more about how much AZ is willing to pay down and not what the return package might be.

Here is just a made up example of possibly 2 choices:

A. We pay $13M x 3 for Yoshi to play somewhere else and get nothing in return.

B. We end up with the same net contract cost as A, but have Monty on the roster at no added cost to net A costs. (Or, maybe we end up paying $2-6M more and have Monty vs nothing from A.)

Can someone say why B is not a better idea? (I'm not saying finding a trade like that is easy or possible.)

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Please explain B and what would motivate Arizona to do it.

I've said it might be impossible to find someone to do a deal like that, because they'd probably just prefer to save as much money as possible and not take on another big contract:

Pay enough of Yoshida's contract to make AZ still save money over paying Monty, instead.

They save money and get a batter.

We pay a little more money than we pay Yoshida, not, but we get a pitcher. like Monty, who could turn tings around in '25.

Maybe we pay $4M more than we do with Yoshida and get a pitcher. In theory, we then replace Yoshida at DH with better batters: Ref v LHPs and ___ vs RHPs (Abreu? the possible GG winner, if Anthony plays RF?)

Like I said, why wouldn't AZ just get someone to take Monty and almost all his contract? Even if they like Yoshida, they can probably do better.

I have yet to come up with this theoretical type trade that I think both sides might say yes.

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

you are overvaluing what other teams think of Yoshida. Even if the Sox found a taker they would have to retain a large % of his contract and get nothing more than a low level prospect in return.

I don't think I am. I've often said we'd have to pay almost all his salary for nothing in return- not even a "low level prospect" you mention.

Maybe, just maybe, we'd save $3-6M/yr, if some team thinks they'd pay that to a FA Yoshida.

My idea of taking another team's salary dump as part of the return is assuming the other team does not want the pitcher about as much as how little we want Yoshida. The net money exchange would still mean we pay more than they do, so they achieve their goal of cutting salary and dumping a guy they don't want, while filling a possible need at DH or with a LHB.

I've mentioned several times, that team and pitcher may not exist.

How much do you value Yoshida? Do you think he'd get a $9M/3 offer, if he was a FA? How about $12M/3 or $15M/3? That's about my range, with a tops of $18M/3. Are you much lower than that?

2 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

first off Yoshida was a bad signing from day 1. Popular belief was that Bloom far overpaid for him.At the time he might have been a 3-4 million dollar player but right now he does not fit at all with the Sox.  NO power and is only a DH.  I'd get rid of him anyway possible. 

So, we both value him about the same.

We both want him gone. I'm just looking for another way to do it.

I'd even include a blocked prospect or two to get a return that might help.

9 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

trust me i am sure that is very high on Bresslow's list this offseason.  the surgery doesn't help though.

No, the shoulder issue won't help, and waiting until he shows he's healthy might be the choice, but he'll take up a roster slot until then.

16 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

first off Yoshida was a bad signing from day 1. Popular belief was that Bloom far overpaid for him. At the time he might have been a 3-4 million dollar player but right now he does not fit at all with the Sox.  NO power and is only a DH.  I'd get rid of him anyway possible.  Eat whatever $$ you need to make it happen.  A straight up trade for Montgomery will not happen for 2 reasons. 1} Henry will not approve any extra $$ for Montgomery and 2}  the other team would probably not even want Yoshida.

 

On another note do you still want the Sox to sign Flaherty?

It’s been said by numerous MLB personnel the Sox overpaid for Yoshida.  Not one of them said he was a $3-4mill player.  Because he isn’t; that’s utility infielder money…