Bloom move your asssssss

[notin]

Yea you are correct. Peraza and Perez are right up there with Ortiz and Manny Ramirez. What a freaking genius, how could Tampa ever let Bloom go.

 

Is that the standard? “Good move” = future Hall of Famer?

 

And stop pretending you were rejoicing when the Sox acquired Ortiz. Had you ever even heard of him before 2003?

[oldtimer]

Price still has a decent chance at providing quality pitching over the next 3 years. It's not unheard of for great pitchers to dip around age 30 and then go on to rediscover greatness or near greatness. With the lack of good pitching options out there, Price has value- even if most seems potential.

 

He's certainlt not worth near $32M/yr, but we don't need to cut $32M from the budget. Taking back some salary in exchange can help soften the financial strain on the other team while filling an open slot we have (1B, 2B, back up C & OF and P). The player we get back would be someone we'd have to hope has a resurgence, too, but with the savings on the budget, Bloom would have more chances to do his thing.

 

The Dodgers might well devise a trade in which we would gain a usefull player while also gaining some salary benefit as well. Depends on how serious they are. prospects and us paying down part of Price's salary is another trade avenue. Bloom has to look for good opportunites to lose salary commitments without totally giving away a cmmitment to competitiveness.

[Elktonnick]

Is that the standard? “Good move” = future Hall of Famer?

 

And stop pretending you were rejoicing when the Sox acquired Ortiz. Had you ever even heard of him before 2003?

Actually I had but that is beside the point, are you making the case that the two P boys are right up there with Big Papi and Manny. I suspect the two Ps will be something far less than significant.

[Carpin]

They traded away Ismael Valdez, and he had far fewer off-field issues than Urias...

 

Valdez was not in Urias class, he was just a back of the rotation pitcher. Urias off-field issues don't look so severe like Russell and Osuna; I'm sure the Dodgers did their homework on this, normal fans like you and me probably will never know

[harmony]

The Dodgers might well devise a trade in which we would gain a usefull player while also gaining some salary benefit as well. Depends on how serious they are. prospects and us paying down part of Price's salary is another trade avenue. Bloom has to look for good opportunites to lose salary commitments without totally giving away a cmmitment to competitiveness.

Unlike many Red Sox fans, Chaim Bloom probably has the courage to abandon a goal of contention in 2020 in hopes of resetting the luxury tax calculation. The Sox were not particularly competitive this year and are currently about $29 million over the 2020 luxury tax threshold, according to Roster Resource:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/red-sox?season=2020

[notin]

Actually I had but that is beside the point, are you making the case that the two P boys are right up there with Big Papi and Manny. I suspect the two Ps will be something far less than significant.

 

I never even remotely made that suggestion. In fact, by that logic, Dombrowski made 0 good moves.

 

If you’re expecting Bloom is not doing his job or doesn’t know how to because he has failed to add players of the Manny/Irtiz caliber, your insane expectations are not going to be met. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the team has reached a budget limit. Just because you don’t have the confirmation you want on this doesn’t mean you get to just go into denial and whine about. The fact is, the heavy-spending GM was fired and the trade/bargain/low budget GM was brought in. He won’t meet your standard for good moves as those involve big names and big contracts, but history has shown he knows how to do his job and the fact that some fans do not believe in the existence of the limitations he clearly has in place doesn’t change this or matter...

Edited December 19, 2019 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox were not particularly competitive this year

 

Is a +73 run differential not even considered 'competitive' by your standards?

 

I think teams have made the playoffs and even won the World Series with worse.

[harmony]

Is a +73 run differential not even considered 'competitive' by your standards?

 

I think teams have made the playoffs and even won the World Series with worse.

The Red Sox, who finished 12 games out of the second Wild Card slot, had the lowest positive run differential in the league but indeed ranked seventh of the 15 American League teams in that category.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2019-standings.shtml

[Elktonnick]

I never even remotely made that suggestion. In fact, by that logic, Dombrowski made 0 good moves.

 

If you’re expecting Bloom is not doing his job or doesn’t know how to because he has failed to add players of the Manny/Irtiz caliber, your insane expectations are not going to be met. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the team has reached a budget limit. Just because you don’t have the confirmation you want on this doesn’t mean you get to just go into denial and whine about. The fact is, the heavy-spending GM was fired and the trade/bargain/low budget GM was brought in. He won’t meet your standard for good moves as those involve big names and big contracts, but history has shown he knows how to do his job and the fact that some fans do not believe in the existence of the limitations he clearly has in place doesn’t change this or matter...

I have no expectations of Bloom other than he do his job. I see however no evidence that he has done anything of note. DD for all his faults has two rings Bloom has none.

 

For the record DD was not fired for overspending. His contract was not renewed because he was not collobarative enough and did not keep everyone in the loop.

For whatever his good points Bloom has yet to prove himself one way or other.

I do however have one prediction Bloom too will one day be fired. Fans can only hope he too can win a ring before Henry tires of him and let's him go.

[Bellhorn04]

For the record DD was not fired for overspending. His contract was not renewed because he was not collobarative enough and did not keep everyone in the loop.

 

That's not for the record. That's speculation. Henry made some remarks that suggested there were some differences on strategy.

[moonslav59]

We should fire Bloom for having no rings.

[notin]

I have no expectations of Bloom other than he do his job. I see however no evidence that he has done anything of note. DD for all his faults has two rings Bloom has none.

 

For the record DD was not fired for overspending. His contract was not renewed because he was not collobarative enough and did not keep everyone in the loop.

For whatever his good points Bloom has yet to prove himself one way or other.

I do however have one prediction Bloom too will one day be fired. Fans can only hope he too can win a ring before Henry tires of him and let's him go.

 

 

You’re right!! Bloom has had the job almost 2 months now and has no rings!!! Time to abandon ship!!!

 

He might get fired one day. Or he might not although people will rationalize being was. But only two people acting as GM for the Sox have actually been fired in the Henry era - Dan Duquette and Dave Dombrowski...

[Elktonnick]

That's not for the record. That's speculation. Henry made some remarks that suggested there were some differences on strategy.

Most knowledgeable sources do not buy that line at all. Gammons, Chris Russo et al all heard that DDs personality was pissing off Henry even before the Sox won in 2018. Russo said on the MLB network that DDs management style and the complaints about it were the talk around baseball in 2018 but no one would say anything publicly. Russo also said that he was surprised DD was not fired then. Gammons more or less confirmed Russo's account as have others.

So you can believe the Red Sox disinformation campaign that it was about money and strategy if you wish. It isn't as if Red Sox ownership has never lied before about personnel issues. No they would never do that.

[Elktonnick]

You’re right!! Bloom has had the job almost 2 months now and has no rings!!! Time to abandon ship!!!

 

He might get fired one day. Or he might not although people will rationalize being was. But only two people acting as GM for the Sox have actually been fired in the Henry era - Dan Duquette and Dave Dombrowski...

 

As Cervantes wrote in Don Quixote "It doesn't matter if the rock hits the pitcher or if the pitcher hits rock it is still bad for the pitcher" The Red Sox sure have run through a lot of GMs in last few years.

[notin]

Most knowledgeable sources do not buy that line at all. Gammons, Chris Russo et al all heard that DDs personality was pissing off Henry even before the Sox won in 2018. Russo said on the MLB network that DDs management style and the complaints about it were the talk around baseball in 2018 but no one would say anything publicly. Russo also said that he was surprised DD was not fired then. Gammons more or less confirmed Russo's account as have others.

So you can believe the Red Sox disinformation campaign that it was about money and strategy if you wish. It isn't as if Red Sox ownership has never lied before about personnel issues. No they would never do that.

 

 

If Henry so much despised Dombrowski’s style, it does make you wonder why he hired him. He did employ him previously and knew him quite well.

 

If you want actual facts, Dombrowski spent a lot of money and stopped winning, and left this team in a bad position going forward. If Henry didn’t mind the spending, he could have easily replaced Dombrowski with another heavy slender and continued the same path. He didn’t.

 

It is weird how you prefer external sources like Russo and Gammons but disregard internal ones like Henry and Kennedy, even when their actions support their words...

[Bellhorn04]

So you can believe the Red Sox disinformation campaign that it was about money and strategy if you wish. It isn't as if Red Sox ownership has never lied before about personnel issues. No they would never do that.

 

Actions speak louder than words. Hiring Chaim Bloom says money and strategy were very much on Henry's mind.

[moonslav59]

If Henry so much despised Dombrowski’s style, it does make you wonder why he hired him. He did employ him previously and knew him quite well.

 

If you want actual facts, Dombrowski spent a lot of money and stopped winning, and left this team in a bad position going forward. If Henry didn’t mind the spending, he could have easily replaced Dombrowski with another heavy slender and continued the same path. He didn’t.

 

It is weird how you prefer external sources like Russo and Gammons but disregard internal ones like Henry and Kennedy, even when their actions support their words...

 

Sometimes it's easier to accept things you don't like when you're winning.

[Elktonnick]

Actions speak louder than words. Hiring Chaim Bloom says money and strategy were very much on Henry's mind.

After the fact. Hiring Bloom does not disprove Gammons Russo et al statements that DD was fired because of management style not bloated payroll. Henry is perfectly capable of making sharp changes of direction if it suits his purposes.

[Elktonnick]

Sometimes it's easier to accept things you don't like when you're winning.

 

DD stopped winning in 2019 not 2018 and he stopped winning because he either listened to or implemented the idiotic spring training regime.

[Elktonnick]

If Henry so much despised Dombrowski’s style, it does make you wonder why he hired him. He did employ him previously and knew him quite well.

 

If you want actual facts, Dombrowski spent a lot of money and stopped winning, and left this team in a bad position going forward. If Henry didn’t mind the spending, he could have easily replaced Dombrowski with another heavy slender and continued the same path. He didn’t.

 

It is weird how you prefer external sources like Russo and Gammons but disregard internal ones like Henry and Kennedy, even when their actions support their words...

Gammons and Russo do not have the track record of misleading their public and misingengenious comments that eminate from the FO from time to time, just ask Terry Francona.

[moonslav59]

DD stopped winning in 2019 not 2018 and he stopped winning because he either listened to or implemented the idiotic spring training regime.

 

If that helps you sleep at night, carry on.

[moonslav59]

After the fact. Hiring Bloom does not disprove Gammons Russo et al statements that DD was fired because of management style not bloated payroll. Henry is perfectly capable of making sharp changes of direction if it suits his purposes.

 

Can anyone know for sure, if DD would still be here, if his management style meshed with the organization?

 

Would he still be here having the same style but we made the playoffs and or advanced a round or two in 2019?

 

I'm leaning towards No to 1 and Yes to 2, but it's just conjecture on my part.

[Bellhorn04]

Gammons and Russo do not have the track record of misleading their public and misingengenious comments that eminate from the FO from time to time, just ask Terry Francona.

 

If the Red Sox FO is full of crap, where exactly are Gammons and Russo getting their facts on why Henry really fired DD?

[Elktonnick]

If the Red Sox FO is full of crap, where exactly are Gammons and Russo getting their facts on why Henry really fired DD?

They are reporters. Peter Gammons is probably one of the most well respected baseball writers in the country. I guess being in Canada you may not be aware of his reputation.

[Elktonnick]

Can anyone know for sure, if DD would still be here, if his management style meshed with the organization?

 

Would he still be here having the same style but we made the playoffs and or advanced a round or two in 2019?

 

I'm leaning towards No to 1 and Yes to 2, but it's just conjecture on my part.

Good questions. I think restgate really sullied his reputation and made it possible to no longer overlook his personality.

[notin]

After the fact. Hiring Bloom does not disprove Gammons Russo et al statements that DD was fired because of management style not bloated payroll. Henry is perfectly capable of making sharp changes of direction if it suits his purposes.

 

That action boldly states Henry did not like spending without winning. That he hired “after the fact” is immaterial. He wasn’t going to hire anyone before firing DD...

[Swiharts Ghost]

Shhhhhhoot we won in 13 and 18 Henry should be very happy with the results.I am getting concerned that this less aggressive approach will bite us in the ass though .The Dodgers should be locked in a room until we iron out a trade .I see no other team other than the Dodgers at this point .

[Elktonnick]

That action boldly states Henry did not like spending without winning. That he hired “after the fact” is immaterial. He wasn’t going to hire anyone before firing DD...

 

Again none of that diminishes the fact that DD was fired for his management style not his spending which Henry approved of when it happened.

[Bellhorn04]

Again none of that diminishes the fact that DD was fired for his management style not his spending which Henry approved of when it happened.

 

It's not an established fact by any stretch.

 

And Henry also approved Cherington's signings, but that doesn't mean they had nothing to do with his departure.

[Elktonnick]

It's not an established fact by any stretch.

 

And Henry also approved Cherington's signings, but that doesn't mean they had nothing to do with his departure.

Oh but I think it very much does;

Peter Gammons Sept 19 2019 The Athletic:

 

"And five minutes into Sept. 9, 2019, Dombrowski was dismissed. Which means that when the 2020 season opens, the Red Sox will have won four World Series under Henry ownership and will be turning to their fourth general manager over that period — not counting interims from Mike Port to Jed Hoyer and Bill Lajoie to the four extraordinarily gifted members of the present organization.

The gorilla suit was a mess. The Tito/Theo departures were a mess. The behind-his-back treatment of Cherington was a mess. Now, Sunday night’s events were as strange as the way the Colts departed Baltimore in moving vans.

Understand, this is a very difficult job. The easy part is replacing Dombrowski; what’s hard is finding what the Dodgers’ Andrew Friedman, Epstein and Arizona’s Mike Hazen have built in terms of organizational collaboration. Dombrowski was estranged from many of the people who are the framework and soul of a franchise who at times this season fielded a team where every positional player was homegrown, and installed by those who preceded Dombrowski. His cabinet was perceived to be Frank Wren and Tony LaRussa.

One former Red Sox front office member who is now in the National League came to a Saturday afternoon game in April and said, “these guys just got their World Series rings, and everyone’s miserable. It’s unbelievable.” Another former member of the inner circle said last month, “I hate all that I hear about that place. It should be great. But it seems like everyone wants to leave.”

And there were many indications that Dombrowski and Red Sox President Sam Kennedy, arguably one of the most trusted people in the business, weren’t on the same page. Kennedy is the face and voice of the franchise. Many of Kennedy’s associates said where Kennedy and Epstein had melded baseball operations and business into one focused unit, this was not what Dombrowski was told would be the case when he was hired.

In fact, when Dombrowski arrived in Boston, Kennedy picked him up at the airport. Dombrowski asked Kennedy to arrange a meeting between him and Cherington. He’d been hired and didn’t know Cherington was already gone. A year later, Hazen, Jared Porter and Amiel Sawdaye, three key figures in a decade of success, left for Arizona with no love lost for Dombrowski."

 

That's what Peter Gammons and Chris Russo were talking about when they said DD had a personality and management style problem. Now you can still refuse to believe Gammons three time sportswriter of the year and 2004 J. G. Taylor Spink Award Winner that it was management style not payroll that led to his departure but I will.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Elktonnick