Sale to IL with elbow injury

[jacksonianmarch]

How about 15m and JD Martinez (I'm assuming he isn't opting out) to the Twins for a prospect? The Twins get Martinez at an affordable price and he replaces the much older N.Cruz. The Red Sox save money by moving Martinez's contract and get a quality prospect in return.

 

The Twins carry a one year option on Cruz. They're going to exercise it. No need to get locked in for three years on a DH when they have a good one for a single year at better money

[jacksonianmarch]

I know Happ is older than Eovaldi, hence the shorter contract, but he had good numbers for 4 years running:

2015-2018

58-29 3.48 (FIP 3.78)

690 IP (avg: 173 IP per season)

120 ERA+

1.214 WHIP

3.21 K/BB

 

 

Nobody seems to be willing to admit this. Happ was a really good pitcher for 4 seasons. The velocity fell as has his effectiveness this year.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Nobody seems to be willing to admit this. Happ was a really good pitcher for 4 seasons. The velocity fell as has his effectiveness this year.

 

Nice fairy tale. In reality, only an incompetent general manager would pay Happ 17m per year and fail to see he was trending in the wrong direction.

 

Happ: 83 ERA+, 0.3 WAR

S.Gray: 154 ERA+, 4.2 WAR

Corbin: 141 ERA+, 4.5 WAR

 

Typical Brian Cashman. LOL. There is a reason why the Yankees haven't played a World Series game in the current decade.

[oldtimer]

The Sox are carrying starting pitching salaries of Price 31 M, Sale 15M and Eovaldi 17M and none really are either available to pitch now or are really not pitching well. That $63 M in starting pitching contracts that is probably not worth the paper their written on the remainder of the year. And that doesn't include the cost of benes. If they are either out or further reduced in capability next year the salaries will be 32M Price, 30 M Sale and 17M Eovaldi or $79 M not counting benefits. No team can be competitive with so much dead money in contracts, let alone Pedroias added to that. Lets hope we get a bounce back from a couple of these, but long term it may look extremely bleak. One has to ask why DD put the team in this predicament.

[notin]

The Sox are carrying starting pitching salaries of Price 31 M, Sale 15M and Eovaldi 17M and none really are either available to pitch now or are really not pitching well. That $63 M in starting pitching contracts that is probably not worth the paper their written on the remainder of the year. And that doesn't include the cost of benes. If they are either out or further reduced in capability next year the salaries will be 32M Price, 30 M Sale and 17M Eovaldi or $79 M not counting benefits. No team can be competitive with so much dead money in contracts, let alone Pedroias added to that. Lets hope we get a bounce back from a couple of these, but long term it may look extremely bleak. One has to ask why DD put the team in this predicament.

 

Huh?

 

It’s not just about the dead money. It’s also about the active money. Also you left off Sandoval and his $17mill.

 

The Red Sox remaining players still have a payroll of about $140mill. That’s more than enough to build a competitive team. That’s more than the payrolls of Tampa, Oakland, Minnesota, and Atlanta, all of whom probably also have some cash tied up in injured players as well.

 

The Sox problem isn’t the “limited” payroll. Their problem is having no depth below their MLB payroll. Cleveland, for example, has a major ch lower payroll thanBoson and been without Kluber and Carrasco nearly all season and is still in a much better postseason position than Boston.,.

Edited August 19, 2019 by notin

[moonslav59]

Nice fairy tale. In reality, only an incompetent general manager would pay Happ 17m per year and fail to see he was trending in the wrong direction.

 

Happ: 83 ERA+, 0.3 WAR

S.Gray: 154 ERA+, 4.2 WAR

Corbin: 141 ERA+, 4.5 WAR

 

Typical Brian Cashman. LOL. There is a reason why the Yankees haven't played a World Series game in the current decade.

 

His age was trending the wrong direction, but his WHIP, K/9 and K/BB rates were his best ever in 2018.

 

His ERA+ was down but still at 116- a heck of a lot better than his career 103 mark.

[moonslav59]

Huh?

 

It’s not just about the dead money. It’s also about the active money. Also you left off Sandoval and his $17mill.

 

The Red Sox remaining players still have a payroll of about $140mill. That’s more than enough to build a competitive team. That’s more than the payrolls of Tampa, Oakland, Minnesota, and Atlanta, all of whom probably also have some cash tied up in injured players as well.

 

The Sox problem isn’t the “limited” payroll. Their problem is having no depth below their MLB payroll. Cleveland, for example, has a major ch lower payroll thanBoson and been without Kluber and Carrasco nearly all season and is still in a much better postseason position than Boston.,.

 

Why?

 

Because they have a decent farm system that plugs the holes of departing FAs and injured players.

 

They've lost some serious talent to free agency and trades, recently, too.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

His age was trending the wrong direction, but his WHIP, K/9 and K/BB rates were his best ever in 2018.

 

His ERA+ was down but still at 116- a heck of a lot better than his career 103 mark.

 

Do we really want to have a debate on JA Happ -- it is enough to make you want to puke. Since I don't want to have such an inane discussion, I'll only say (briefly) that Happ's FIP (with the Yankees in 2018) and declining K rate (with the Yankees in 2018) were two troubling signs among many. In addition to this, Happ profiles as the kind of pitcher that does begin to decline significantly beyond the age of 35. But this is what Cashman does, he makes bad judgments on starting pitchers and he has done this throughout his tenure with the Yankees. There is a reason why one of the top spending teams in MLB has not played in a World Series game in the current decade.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[jacksonianmarch]

His age was trending the wrong direction, but his WHIP, K/9 and K/BB rates were his best ever in 2018.

 

His ERA+ was down but still at 116- a heck of a lot better than his career 103 mark.

 

He's just a troll. This is his shtick

[jacksonianmarch]

Do we really want to have a debate on JA Happ -- it is enough to make you want to puke. Since I don't want to have such an inane discussion, I'll only say (briefly) that Happ's FIP (with the Yankees in 2018) and declining K rate (with the Yankees in 2018) were two troubling signs among many. In addition to this, Happ profiles as the kind of pitcher that does begin to decline significantly beyond the age of 35. But this is what Cashman does, he makes bad judgments on starting pitchers and he has done this throughout his tenure with the Yankees. There is a reason why one of the top spending teams in MLB has not played in a World Series game in the current decade.

 

How do you validate any of what you just said outside of the fact that you hate the Yankees? If you ever want to be taken seriously by anyone on this board you actually should bring something useful.

 

Happ is actually the type of pitcher who traditionally ages well. Lefty junkballers live long lives in the major leagues. Its the fireballers you need to worry about long term. Happ never had a great fastball. The problem this year is his fastball has trailed off from his already below average level and he has also lost bite on his breaking ball. He is leaving balls up in the zone more and they aren't staying in the field of play. But you wouldn't know that because you don't really know much about baseball, now do you?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Since you're such an "expert" (a guy who uses BABIP without looking at Line Drive %) then you explain to me why the Yankees haven't played in a World Series game this decade despite having one of the highest payrolls in MLB year in and year out. Cashman is doing something wrong, no?

 

If it isn't Cashman's fault, who should I blame? Divine intervention?

[jacksonianmarch]

Since you're such an "expert" (a guy who uses BABIP without looking at Line Drive %) then you explain to me why the Yankees haven't played in a World Series game this decade despite having one of the highest payrolls in MLB year in and year out. Cashman is doing something wrong, no?

 

If it isn't Cashman's fault, who should I blame? Divine intervention?

 

Because we won a title in 2009 by giving out bloated contracts and gave out a bloated extension to a roided out third baseman against Cashman's wishes. We spent a few years reveling over the past with a broken down SS who is going into the HOF. We experience the back half of what you're about to deal with. We spent 2013-2016 recovering from and getting beyond those bloated deals. We spent those years prospect building and have created a team that leads all of baseball in win percentage.

 

You may not remember the wresting of power that took place after the Ellsbury mishap. Cashman did not want to give out the Ellsbury deal. He fought that one tooth and nail, but Boras went to Levine and the rest is history. Since that deal was signed, you haven't seen the types of long term, crippling contracts given out like they had been. Cashman finally demanded and got control

 

Now tell me, how does a team that leads the league in payroll miss the playoffs? That's what you're about to experience. Enjoy that one

[harmony]

Since you're such an "expert" (a guy who uses BABIP without looking at Line Drive %) then you explain to me why the Yankees haven't played in a World Series game this decade despite having one of the highest payrolls in MLB year in and year out. Cashman is doing something wrong, no?

 

If it isn't Cashman's fault, who should I blame? Divine intervention?

Even in the cold evenings of a postseason-less October, Red Sox fans will have warm memories of four World Series titles this millenium.

 

Nothing can take away those World Series championships ...

 

... and nothing can take away the three last-place finishes in the last 10 seasons.

 

This decade the Red Sox have compiled a 855-729 (.540) record in the regular season while the Yankees have complied a 901-683 (.569) record with no losing seasons.

 

The frustration of Red Sox fans this season is understandable but perhaps some fans spend too much time denigrating the injury-plagued team with a 16-game lead over the Sox.

[Jasonbay44]

ESPN is reporting Sale WONT need TJ surgery. That’s good news at least

[notin]

ESPN is reporting Sale WONT need TJ surgery. That’s good news at least

 

2020 is BACK ON!!

[jacksonianmarch]

It is good news. If I were the Sox, I’d have them treat it like a partial UCL year, inject some PRP in there and shut him down from throwing until February

[Swiharts Ghost]

ESPN is reporting Sale WONT need TJ surgery. That’s good news at least

 

Beat me to it JB lol

[Swiharts Ghost]

It is good news. If I were the Sox, I’d have them treat it like a partial UCL year, inject some PRP in there and shut him down from throwing until February

 

As much as I hate to agree here ? Yes but minus any shots for a few weeks let it heal Abit more .

[TylerD]

Beat me to it JB lol

 

Thank god for that. Was hoping he wouldn’t need surgery.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Breaking news: my sources are telling me that Sale will not require TJ Surgery. Awesome. Back to the original plan: win a championship in 2020!

[Swiharts Ghost]

Breaking news: my sources are telling me that Sale will not require TJ Surgery. Awesome. Back to the original plan: win a championship in 2020!

Lol get in line JB with the scoop first .

[Fan_since_Boggs]

This decade the Red Sox have compiled a 855-729 (.540) record in the regular season while the Yankees have complied a 901-683 (.569) record with no losing seasons.

 

It's all about championships. This is even more evidence that Brian Cashman has failed at his job.

 

I'll take a few last place finishes and championships OVER first place finishes (every year) and no championship.

 

To win a championship, you sometimes have to trade some of your future away to get over the top. Dombrowski was willing to do that; Cashman was not.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Swiharts Ghost]

As s***** a year as this has been for this team .Devers !!!Xander !!!heck Workman!! He'll there's a stud I watched for Salem Thad ?? Freaking kid is siiiiiiick 98 heater disgusting breaking stuff .The News on Sale is frankly incredible .Shut him down bring up a kid that has promise .Lets absolutely crush some dreams now . Edited August 19, 2019 by Swiharts Ghost

[moonslav59]

Do we really want to have a debate on JA Happ -- it is enough to make you want to puke. Since I don't want to have such an inane discussion, I'll only say (briefly) that Happ's FIP (with the Yankees in 2018) and declining K rate (with the Yankees in 2018) were two troubling signs among many. In addition to this, Happ profiles as the kind of pitcher that does begin to decline significantly beyond the age of 35. But this is what Cashman does, he makes bad judgments on starting pitchers and he has done this throughout his tenure with the Yankees. There is a reason why one of the top spending teams in MLB has not played in a World Series game in the current decade.

 

His 2018 K Rate was his career high (9.8). It dipped a little with the Yanks (8.9). but that is a full K above his career 7.9 mark.

 

Sorry, I hate the Yanks, too, but I won't misrepresent the facts.

 

Look, I expected decline and argues with Jacko over his value, but his numbers were pretty darn good last year- almost all better than his career norm.

 

Yes, some slipped from 2015-2017 numbers, but others were his career best: WHIP, K/9, K/BB...

[harmony]

It's all about championships. This is even more evidence that Brian Cashman has failed at his job.

If that's the definition then indeed the Red Sox have outperformed the Yankees this decade.

 

By other measures, not so much.

 

Pick your perspective.

[notin]

It's all about championships. This is even more evidence that Brian Cashman has failed at his job.

 

I'll take last place finishes and championships over first place finishes every year and no championship.

 

Disagree. Cashman has done a good job for the Yankees, especially this year. There were plenty of seasons where the Yankees not winning was on the players themselves. It happens.

 

This year he screwed up not getting a SP at the deadline, but he did save their season with his low cost signings that carried the team through some very rough stretches of injuries...

[Bellhorn04]

The frustration of Red Sox fans this season is understandable but perhaps some fans spend too much time denigrating the injury-plagued team with a 16-game lead over the Sox.

 

I think we're more complimentary to the Yankees than the Yankee fans on the NYY Fans Forum are.

[Bellhorn04]

If that's the definition then indeed the Red Sox have outperformed the Yankees this decade.

 

By other measures, not so much.

 

Pick your perspective.

 

My perspective is in my signature line.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Shutdown Sale for the rest of the year. If Sale can have a big season next year, together with one of the best offenses in baseball, the Red Sox are right there again with the best teams. Sale is so integral to the future hopes of the Red Sox. Edited August 19, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

His 2018 K Rate was his career high (9.8). It dipped a little with the Yanks (8.9). but that is a full K above his career 7.9 mark.

 

Sorry, I hate the Yanks, too, but I won't misrepresent the facts.

 

Look, I expected decline and argues with Jacko over his value, but his numbers were pretty darn good last year- almost all better than his career norm.

 

Yes, some slipped from 2015-2017 numbers, but others were his career best: WHIP, K/9, K/BB...

 

I think his k rate toward the end of 2018 was lower than his k rate in some of his preceding seasons (I refuse to look at it again). Some say FIP is a great predictor of future performance and his FIP with the Yankees was not impressive. Some numbers suggest decline, some don't. Cashman made the best call he could, and he got it wrong. That's the point, Cashman got it wrong. He has a history of making poor judgments with starting pitchers.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs