Betts Hitting 2nd in Batting Order

[Dalas21000]

I don't particularly agree with Cora's decision to bat Betts second in the batting lineup..Then again, I didn't agree with various other things Cora did with the team last year, but they still found a way to win... .I always believed and was taught to have your fastest guy that can steal bases and hit at leadoff...I think Betts leadoff and Bentintendi second was much better....Any thoughts???

[Slasher9]

The new metrics say to bat your best hitter 2nd

[Kimmi]

I was completely on board with Mookie batting first last season but not because he's fast and can steal bases. Batting lead off is all about OBP.

 

Personally, I would have kept the top of the order the same as last year, but switching Mookie and Beni should be fine too.

 

I do think people tend to get hung up on RBIs though.

[Dalas21000]

The new metrics say to bat your best hitter 2nd

The new metrics?

[Dalas21000]

I was completely on board with Mookie batting first last season but not because he's fast and can steal bases. Batting lead off is all about OBP.

 

Personally, I would have kept the top of the order the same as last year, but switching Mookie and Beni should be fine too.

 

I do think people tend to get hung up on RBIs though.

 

I'm not sure I agree that lead off is "All" about OBP...I think its a combination of OBP and stolen bases to put him in scoring position....I'm not saying Benintendi can't steal bases but I think Betts is best at it....

[cp176]

The new metrics say to bat your best hitter 2nd

 

hey - maybe next years metrics will have him batting third. Screw the metrics.

[notin]

I'm not sure I agree that lead off is "All" about OBP...I think its a combination of OBP and stolen bases to put him in scoring position....I'm not saying Benintendi can't steal bases but I think Betts is best at it....

 

 

Stolen bases are overrated. At bats with people on base are not...

[notin]

I'm not sure I agree that lead off is "All" about OBP...I think its a combination of OBP and stolen bases to put him in scoring position...l

 

 

The Reds non-tendered stolen base wizard Billy Hamilton. Not “demoted in the lineup.” Not “traded”. They released him because he flat out sucked at getting on first. He was the inspiration for the axiom “you can’t steal first.”

 

OBP is important because essentially it’s “the percentage of time a hitter doesn’t make a out.” Batting the best hitter behind the OBP leader should lead to more at bats with at least one runner on base, so second is optimal. Dropping him down to third might put more runners on base, but dropping a hitter down one place in the lineup costs him 18 plate appearances per year. So it’s best to minimize that...

[Kimmi]

I'm not sure I agree that lead off is "All" about OBP...I think its a combination of OBP and stolen bases to put him in scoring position....I'm not saying Benintendi can't steal bases but I think Betts is best at it....

 

"All about OBP" is a figure of speech. Of course there are other things to consider, but the ability to get on base is the most important quality of your leadoff hitter. Being speedy is not really an important factor. Base stealing actually has more impact on an offense when you put base stealers in front of your singles hitters instead of in front of your power hitters.

 

Rickey Henderson was a great leadoff hitter because of his ability to get on base, not because of his base stealing prowess.

[Kimmi]

Stolen bases are overrated. At bats with people on base are not...

 

[Dalas21000]

"All about OBP" is a figure of speech. Of course there are other things to consider, but the ability to get on base is the most important quality of your leadoff hitter. Being speedy is not really an important factor. Base stealing actually has more impact on an offense when you put base stealers in front of your singles hitters instead of in front of your power hitters.

 

Rickey Henderson was a great leadoff hitter because of his ability to get on base, not because of his base stealing prowess.

 

I have to disagree with your statement about Ricky Henderson...Henderson was a leadoff hitter because he got on base AND stole bases...Its all about getting guys into scoring position so that the next guy can hit you in...Unless you hit a homerun of course

[Dalas21000]

Stolen bases are overrated. At bats with people on base are not...

 

Stolen bases are overrated? How do you figure?lol

[moonslav59]

I love Betts up 2nd.

 

I hope JD hits 4th- not 3rd.

 

Cora is the best Sox manager I have ever seen. To imply we won despite him is (IMO) just plain wrong.

[cp176]

I love Betts up 2nd.

 

I hope JD hits 4th- not 3rd.

 

Cora is the best Sox manager I have ever seen. To imply we won despite him is (IMO) just plain wrong.

 

is JD a part of a discussion about where Betts should hit in the lineup? Come on Moon. we all want to see JD hit cleanup. It is what the metrics say for gosh sake.

[moonslav59]

is JD a part of a discussion about where Betts should hit in the lineup? Come on Moon. we all want to see JD hit cleanup. It is what the metrics say for gosh sake.

 

Betts hitting second has been decided and is what is best.

 

I brought up JD, because I'm not sure it is decided, and batting him 3rd has been mentioned and supported here.

 

Just trying to keep the conversation going.

Edited March 10, 2019 by moonslav59

[Slasher9]

The new metrics?

 

I don’t think your supposed to be quoting me....nor I you....

[Kimmi]

I have to disagree with your statement about Ricky Henderson...Henderson was a leadoff hitter because he got on base AND stole bases...Its all about getting guys into scoring position so that the next guy can hit you in...Unless you hit a homerun of course

 

Back in his day, I'm sure the manager put Henderson in the lead off spot because of his speed and his ability to steal bases. Fortunately for the A's, Henderson also had a very good OBP.

 

The widely accepted current view is to look for a high OBP first. Speed is not an important quality for the lead off hitter.

[Kimmi]

Stolen bases are overrated? How do you figure?lol

 

Saying that stolen bases are overrated is not the same as saying that stolen bases are not important.

 

Stolen bases do not have as large an impact as it seems they would.

[Kimmi]

I don’t think your supposed to be quoting me....nor I you....

 

LOL I almost quoted you initially, then I thought again.

[Station 13]

It seems the difference is negligible at best between a 1-2 hitter. Both are trusted to score runs. How many less runs is Mookie going to score now he bats 2nd? Yeehhaaa when does the season begins?

[Slasher9]

LOL I almost quoted you initially, then I thought again.

 

Lol. You and I can quote each other ! Only babe and I are supposed to not quote each other...,

[jung]

If the team on the field can get an out before the team batting can get a runner on, its a big deal. I am less concerned about Mookie batting from the 2 than I am with whether Beni can handle the responsibility of the 1 whether he steals bases or not. We shall see.

[Dalas21000]

I love Betts up 2nd.

 

I hope JD hits 4th- not 3rd.

 

Cora is the best Sox manager I have ever seen. To imply we won despite him is (IMO) just plain wrong.

 

What do you like so much about Cora? What has he done to make a significant contribution to the teams success? IMO he had one of the best rosters in baseball last year....

[Dalas21000]

If the team on the field can get an out before the team batting can get a runner on, its a big deal. I am less concerned about Mookie batting from the 2 than I am with whether Beni can handle the responsibility of the 1 whether he steals bases or not. We shall see.

 

That's why like why change anything?What was wrong with Betts leading off?

[moonslav59]

What do you like so much about Cora? What has he done to make a significant contribution to the teams success? IMO he had one of the best rosters in baseball last year....

 

Nobody said the Sox had the best roster in MLB last spring.

 

Cora pulled the team together- vets and kids and all in between.

 

Our pen was supposed to suck. Many wanted JBJ traded.

 

Look how many players improved on 2017. Not all are due to Cora, but I think he played a major role in our team's success.

 

I also had very little issues with in game decisions... much less than with past managers.

 

He's the best Sox manager I have ever seen. (BTW, I said that last summer, before the ring.)

 

[Kimmi]

It seems the difference is negligible at best between a 1-2 hitter. Both are trusted to score runs. How many less runs is Mookie going to score now he bats 2nd? Yeehhaaa when does the season begins?

 

The difference is negligible. For every move a manager makes to improve the offense, there is an almost equal negative effect.

 

It's almost like one of Newton's Laws.

[Kimmi]

Lol. You and I can quote each other ! Only babe and I are supposed to not quote each other...,

 

Ah. I didn't pick up on your point behind that post. LOL

[SCM33]

Stolen bases are overrated? How do you figure?lol

 

Well, look at the overall numbers over the last 40 years.

 

Attempts way down, OBP% way up. Being on base, means more than stealing a base.

[Station 13]

The difference is negligible. For every move a manager makes to improve the offense, there is an almost equal negative effect.

 

It's almost like one of Newton's Laws.

 

You can't go wrong with Mookie.

[SCM33]

I was completely on board with Mookie batting first last season but not because he's fast and can steal bases. Batting lead off is all about OBP.

 

Personally, I would have kept the top of the order the same as last year, but switching Mookie and Beni should be fine too.

 

I do think people tend to get hung up on RBIs though.

 

Batting leadoff isn't necessarily about OBP. Its about seeing pitches, making a pitcher work...which eventually leads to getting on base. I don't care if we have a guy that gets on base at a .333 clip as long as he is making the pitcher throw 6/7 pitches an AB and getting him closer to the 100 mark.