2018 Post Mortem

[moonslav59]

Well, you must also remember that Gray was an ace in Oakland and wasn't terrible last year in limited time with us. We also had Montgomery in the original rotation this year. Our rotation coming into the season had CC as the #5, which he is more than capable of being, especially at his price and duration. With the shackles off, I expect more wheeling and dealing this year. Our rotation will look vastly different.

 

The rotation did look pretty good, on paper, but a lot of the talent was sketchy, and you really only had one ace- a young one at that.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think Gray was sketchy at the time. He had been good in the playoffs for us and for Oakland and had a history of leading good rotations. Tanaka was coming off an absolutely dominating post season. Severino was what, #3 in the CY last year? Add in Montgomery who was solid in 2017 and CC as the 5, and our rotation should have been able to get through a few innings before handing the ball over to the pen in crunch time. Didn't work out that way. Gray s*** his pants in NY. Montgomery blew out his elbow. Sevy lost his nerve/command. CC faded as the season went along. The aggregate performance may have been predictable, but expecting failure from 4 of the 5 spots wasn't. The only guy who was solid all season and was solid in the playoffs was Tanaka.

[Station 13]

Definitely need to upgrade the rotation. They perform fine against s*** clubs. But it seems every game we play the Yankees starter cannot get by 4 innings.

[jacksonianmarch]

And slav, the same could be said for the sox. Sale missed time and lost some effectiveness. Price had issues in crunch time. E-Rod has devolved into almost being unusable. Porcello was awful last year and nobody thought he would become this playoff ace. The thing you have that we don't is an unquestioned ace of the staff. Sale is a big mountain to climb when going into the playoffs. We need someone like that

[BillyWilliams]

You guys went farther than us last year and added a lot of vet talent. You Yankee fans seemed awfully confident just 3 days ago. Now, you speak like you were doomed from the start.

 

 

I certainly didn't feel doomed from the start.

 

Just throwing it out there after the years upon years of hearing sox fans whine like little schoolgirls over payroll.

 

Now you guys know how it feels..........

[moonslav59]

I don't think Gray was sketchy at the time. He had been good in the playoffs for us and for Oakland and had a history of leading good rotations. Tanaka was coming off an absolutely dominating post season. Severino was what, #3 in the CY last year? Add in Montgomery who was solid in 2017 and CC as the 5, and our rotation should have been able to get through a few innings before handing the ball over to the pen in crunch time. Didn't work out that way. Gray s*** his pants in NY. Montgomery blew out his elbow. Sevy lost his nerve/command. CC faded as the season went along. The aggregate performance may have been predictable, but expecting failure from 4 of the 5 spots wasn't. The only guy who was solid all season and was solid in the playoffs was Tanaka.

 

Gray has dealt with injuries and ups and downs for several years.

 

I actually liked the trade you guys made last year. I had hoped we got him.

 

That being said, he's not an ace.

[BillyWilliams]

Golf is for sissies and Yankee fans, oh I forgot, they're the same thing!

 

So doesn't that make the sox and their fans sissies every year they don't win it all??!!

[SoxnCycles]

And slav, the same could be said for the sox. Sale missed time and lost some effectiveness. Price had issues in crunch time. E-Rod has devolved into almost being unusable. Porcello was awful last year and nobody thought he would become this playoff ace. The thing you have that we don't is an unquestioned ace of the staff. Sale is a big mountain to climb when going into the playoffs. We need someone like that

 

And wasn't that why you thought the Yankee rotation was better, when the series started?

You ignored the same issues with your starters.

[moonslav59]

And slav, the same could be said for the sox. Sale missed time and lost some effectiveness. Price had issues in crunch time. E-Rod has devolved into almost being unusable. Porcello was awful last year and nobody thought he would become this playoff ace. The thing you have that we don't is an unquestioned ace of the staff. Sale is a big mountain to climb when going into the playoffs. We need someone like that

 

Actually, I picked Porcello as the ace for the series, but your point is well-taken.

 

ERod got hurt, and he never regained the magic he had to start the season. The team did go 19-4 in his starts this year. Wright was hurt most of the year.

 

While Price and Porcello have been sketchy, too. I think both have shown they can be a true ace moire than Gray and Happ have over the past 3-5 years.

 

Sale is way less "sketchy" than Sev.

 

Our starters were damn good this year, despite the injuries both on paper and in reality. They are better than the Yankee starters.

 

On offense, HRs get all the hype, but we led the majors in runs scored.

 

Pens are important, but they have become over-rated due to WS winners having great ones recently.

 

If there's anything to learn about formulas for success, it's that there are many different roads to winning.

 

We are balanced. Top offense, top 5 pitching and top 5 defense. We can even steal bases and made less bone head plays this year. We have excellent coaching and defensive catchers. Our bottom of the order caught a lot of flack, but they are much better than many think they are, and other teams have the same of worse issues at the bottom.

[moonslav59]

And wasn't that why you thought the Yankee rotation was better, when the series started?

You ignored the same issues with your starters.

 

True. He did think they were better, and now he says they were always their weakness.

 

I never felt the Yankee starters were better than the Sox.

 

I caught flack for believing in Price, but I also chose Porcello as our series ace. I was confident with Eovaldi vs the Yanks- not so much vs the 'stros, but I think Price will make up that difference.

 

I've always been the biggest Chris Freakin' Sale fan in the world. I was suggesting trades for him before he was even born.

 

I also think ERod might end up better than Severino over the next 2-3 years.

[moonslav59]

So doesn't that make the sox and their fans sissies every year they don't win it all??!!

 

We don't play golf in the winter. The ice and snow prevent it.

 

We watch football and women. We don't hit tiny balls into tiny holes.

[moonslav59]

I certainly didn't feel doomed from the start.

 

That wasn't my point. You guys have always been super confident in your rotation this year. It's only in the post morem where I'm hearing the rotation was always the weakness.

 

Just throwing it out there after the years upon years of hearing sox fans whine like little schoolgirls over payroll.

 

I agree here, and personally, I've mentioned several times that Henry needs to be careful he doesn't become viewed as the next George Stienbrenner. I don't think he wants people to think he buys championships. That's why I have been saying I think we will face a cliff situation, because I do think Henry will force a tax reset at some point before 2021. If we win this year, he may reset next year. If we don't, I think he resets after 2020- win or lose.

 

Now you guys know how it feels..........

 

It feels great!

[BillyWilliams]

We don't play golf in the winter. The ice and snow prevent it.

 

We watch football and women. We don't hit tiny balls into tiny holes.

 

That's a nice fantasy, ********, but a nice fantasy nonetheless.......

[SoxnCycles]

True. He did think they were better, and now he says they were always their weakness.

 

I never felt the Yankee starters were better than the Sox.

 

I caught flack for believing in Price, but I also chose Porcello as our series ace. I was confident with Eovaldi vs the Yanks- not so much vs the 'stros, but I think Price will make up that difference.

 

I've always been the biggest Chris Freakin' Sale fan in the world. I was suggesting trades for him before he was even born.

 

I also think ERod might end up better than Severino over the next 2-3 years.

 

There were reasons to believe Price would finally get over the hump.

Just like there were reasons to think Severino would continue to be consistently good, heading into the playoffs.

Both fan bases were greatly disappointed.

[BillyWilliams]

I certainly didn't feel doomed from the start.

 

That wasn't my point. You guys have always been super confident in your rotation this year. It's only in the post morem where I'm hearing the rotation was always the weakness.

 

Just throwing it out there after the years upon years of hearing sox fans whine like little schoolgirls over payroll.

 

I agree here, and personally, I've mentioned several times that Henry needs to be careful he doesn't become viewed as the next George Stienbrenner. I don't think he wants people to think he buys championships. That's why I have been saying I think we will face a cliff situation, because I do think Henry will force a tax reset at some point before 2021. If we win this year, he may reset next year. If we don't, I think he resets after 2020- win or lose.

 

Now you guys know how it feels..........

 

It feels great!

 

Please point out to my posts where I was "super confident" in our rotation. I'll wait.

 

And henry is already viewed as a mini Steinbrenner. He has already "bought" championships.

[SoxnCycles]

Please point out to my posts where I was "super confident" in our rotation. I'll wait.

 

And henry is already viewed as a mini Steinbrenner. He has already "bought" championships.

 

I can live with it, thanks.

[BillyWilliams]

I can live with it, thanks.

 

For sure, I don't regret the championships that the Yanks have "bought".

[moonslav59]

Please point out to my posts where I was "super confident" in our rotation. I'll wait.

 

And henry is already viewed as a mini Steinbrenner. He has already "bought" championships.

 

I never said you, specifically, but jacko was just ranting about Gray and Montgomery and ...

 

As for "buying championships", we've never won a ring and been the top spender the same year, let alone the top spender by tens of millions, when a million was worth $500K now.

 

Yes, we've been a top 3-5 spender in winning years, and certainly big ticket signings were essential to us winning, but never to the extent GS did, until this year, when we are blowing everyone away with our spending.

 

In 2013, the Yanks outspent us by $78M. (We were 4th in spending.)

 

In 2007, the Yanks outspent us by $46M, and we were second.

 

In 2004, the Yanks outsepnt us by $57M, and we were second.

 

From 2005-2006, you guys outspent us by $160M combined.

 

 

Lets look at Yankee ring years:

 

2009 +$76M

2000 +$4M

1999 +$7M

1998 -$6M to BAL

 

 

 

[BillyWilliams]

I never said you, specifically, but jacko was just ranting about Gray and Montgomery and ...

 

As for "buying championships", we've never won a ring and been the top spender the same year, let alone the top spender by tens of millions, when a million was worth $500K now.

 

Yes, we've been a top 3-5 spender in winning years, and certainly big ticket signings were essential to us winning, but never to the extent GS did, until this year, when we are blowing everyone away with our spending.

 

In 2013, the Yanks outspent us by $78M. (We were 4th in spending.)

 

In 2007, the Yanks outspent us by $46M, and we were second.

 

In 2004, the Yanks outsepnt us by $57M, and we were second.

 

From 2005-2006, you guys outspent us by $160M combined.

 

 

Lets look at Yankee ring years:

 

2009 +$76M

2000 +$4M

1999 +$7M

1998 -$6M to BAL

 

 

 

 

One doesn't need to have the very top payroll to have their championship considered to be "bought".........

[BillyWilliams]

I never said you, specifically, but jacko was just ranting about Gray and Montgomery and ...

 

As for "buying championships", we've never won a ring and been the top spender the same year

 

 

 

 

But I do believe you hold the distinction for the highest payrolls to come in last place.

[Slasher9]

One doesn't need to have the very top payroll to have their championship considered to be "bought".........

 

hahahahahaha.

[Station 13]

Does everything have to be a pissing match with babe?

[moonslav59]

One doesn't need to have the very top payroll to have their championship considered to be "bought".........

 

Are the arbitrator of terminology?

[moonslav59]

But I do believe you hold the distinction for the highest payrolls to come in last place.

 

That's very likely true, but who leads the league in seasons leading the league in spending and not winning a ring?

 

You guys may be 50 seasons ahead of second place.

[BillyWilliams]

That's very likely true, but who leads the league in seasons leading the league in spending and not winning a ring?

 

You guys may be 50 seasons ahead of second place.

 

I sincerely doubt that..........

[SoxnCycles]

[moonslav59]

I sincerely doubt that..........

 

Really? My guess is the Yanks led the league in spending every year from 1920 to the 1980's. That's 70 years. Then, you guys led the league most of the next 28 years, so maybe you led the league in 85 out of 100 years. Subtract your 27 rings and you're close to 50.

[BillyWilliams]

Really? My guess is the Yanks led the league in spending every year from 1920 to the 1980's. That's 70 years. Then, you guys led the league most of the next 28 years, so maybe you led the league in 85 out of 100 years. Subtract your 27 rings and you're close to 50.

 

Those might be your guesses but that certainly doesn't make them accurate........

[Bellhorn04]

 

Start spreadin' the news

They're leavin' today...

 

[moonslav59]

Those might be your guesses but that certainly doesn't make them accurate........

 

Come on. Who outspent the Yankees back in the olden days?

 

Not only did they have the highest payroll, they bought players like babe Ruth, before free agency even existed.