5/17 Orioles at Fenway

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Absolutely.....

 

Kiermaier irritates me no end because while he is a great CF, he makes so many plays look so much more difficult than they in fact are and gets to pull it off playing in a town that really does not know any better. Pillar does not do that though he might be just a hair under Kiermaier. JBJ just glides to the baseball. So much of what JBJ accomplishes in CF is lost on the viewing public because he positions himself better than the other league CFers and he takes very direct routes to the baseball. In all honesty, I can't tell much difference defensively between Kiermaier, Pillar and JBJ because all three of them do it very differently to achieve pretty much the same result. All around, JBJ might be better than the other two. He comes in on the ball better than Kiermaier but not as good as Pillar. Pillar comes in better than Kiermaier but does not go back as good as Kiermaier. The terribly inadequate stats and advanced defensive stats they have devised so far favor both Kiermaier and Pillar more than they do JBJ. In Fenway, I would take JBJ over the other two. In your average ML park, probably Kiermaier.

 

Defensively, I would rate JBJ equally to Paul Blair. That's a very high compliment.

[Maxbialystock]

6-2= win

 

6-0= win

 

They are the same. Great game by Price.

 

About right. Heck, I don't even mind the 2 run dinger because it will remind Price next time not to fall in love with that cutter. It was a terrific outing that saved the bullpen, got us a nice win, and gives Price a ton of confidence.

 

Sox now "tied" with the Yankees for 1st but have a lower winning percentage of course.

 

Tomorrow it's Pom, and one can only hope he will improve on his last outing. In the one before that, he was our best starter in the 3 games at Yankee Stadium. Good news is that Cobb's ERA is even worse than Pom's.

[Slasher9]

Win.

[Maxbialystock]

Defensively, I would rate JBJ equally to Paul Blair. That's a very high compliment.

 

Maybe too high. Blair won the Gold Glove 8 times and JBJ none. He is 28 and fast running out of time.

[Spudboy]

You guys can be a bunch of dinks.

[Natick to NC]

Maybe too high. Blair won the Gold Glove 8 times and JBJ none. He is 28 and fast running out of time.

 

Paul Blair couldn't buff JBJ cleats ...paleeeeeeze ,

[TylerD]

Deadpool was fantastic!

 

Apparently Price was fantastic as well!

[Sox75]

Nice job Pricey!

 

It seems the latest "kerfuffle" may have given Price a new perspective on life in Boston????

 

I may be wrong, but my guess is that Cora did not give Price the "shade" he was looking for on the "excuse" front.

 

Look at Smith . . . .

 

Price has consequentally STEPPED UP IN SPADES!!!

 

ACE of spades!

 

 

GOOD ON YOU Price!

 

Good on Cora!!

[S5Dewey]

Maybe too high. Blair won the Gold Glove 8 times and JBJ none. He is 28 and fast running out of time.

 

That's a totally unfair comparison. A lot of that has to do with who Blair was competing against for the award vs who JBJ is competing against.

[Bellhorn04]

Tingle All the Way!

[Spudboy]

Tingle All the Way!

 

lulz

[a700hitter]

DFA Price

The worst Red Sox contract ever.

[a700hitter]

Crap. One out away from the shutout. Ugh

Price pitched a gem. They were eating out of his hand for the entire game. Coming into the 9th inning, he had faced 3 batters over the minimum and he had throwown around 80 pitches. With 2 out and 2 strikes on Machado, Leon gets his first brainstorm of the game and visits Price on the mound. The next pitch was a 3 run HR. After the game Price should tell Leon to keep his ass behind the plate, put down his fingers, and just shut up.

[OH FOY]

Blair played the shallowest CF ever. Took tons of runs away, you couldn't score from 2nd on singles, and almost always got to the ball over his head. Didn't rely on arm, got unreal jumps on the ball. Even when he was old, with the Yanks, saw him in Old Yankee Stadium, it was amazing, he was flagging them down in that Canyon.

Ball hit to Center 400 ft. and runner at 3rd with less than 2 out your going to score 99% of the time unless, you fall down going home.

You want to stop the runs from 2nd, on hits.

Edited May 18, 2018 by OH FOY!

[cp176]

You guys can be a bunch of dinks.

 

lol - good word I haven't heard for a while - almost as good as ********!

[Maxbialystock]

That's a totally unfair comparison. A lot of that has to do with who Blair was competing against for the award vs who JBJ is competing against.

 

Perhaps it is. But to me it's better than observation or memory or whatever of two players separated by 50 years. I understand the enthusiasm for JBJ, but I haven't seen the same enthusiasm outside the domain of the Red Sox fan base. I'm serious about that. I've seen no commentary outside of Boston about the greatness of JBJ.

 

I do agree DWAR's are imperfect, but would go on to say there are no really good metrics for defensive prowess, especially in the outfield. One of my measuring sticks used to be assists vs. errors, but then I realized that smart teams and smart players try not to run on good arms. So fewer baserunners will try to go from first to third on a single to right when they know Betts is in right field. Plus moonslav has made the point that errors are not the best way to measure good defense even though talksoxers are more than happy to make an exception in Devers case: he errs, therefore he is hopelessly incompetent.

[Bellhorn04]

Perhaps it is. But to me it's better than observation or memory or whatever of two players separated by 50 years. I understand the enthusiasm for JBJ, but I haven't seen the same enthusiasm outside the domain of the Red Sox fan base. I'm serious about that. I've seen no commentary outside of Boston about the greatness of JBJ.

 

JBJ finished 5th in voting for MLB center fielders in the 2017 Fielding Bible awards, after a 4th place finish in 2016. That's some solid recognition from independent commentators right there.

[mvp 78]

JBJ finished 5th in voting for MLB center fielders in the 2017 Fielding Bible awards, after a 4th place finish in 2016. That's some solid recognition from independent commentators right there.

 

Seems more fair than saying he’s far and away the best CFer right now.

[S5Dewey]

JBJ finished 5th in voting for MLB center fielders in the 2017 Fielding Bible awards, after a 4th place finish in 2016. That's some solid recognition from independent commentators right there.

 

So he's #4/5 in the Fielding Bible - usually accepted as the Gold Standard for fielding - and middle of the pack statistically. When people who rate defense for a living can't agree on how good JBJ is how can mere underlings like us have any faith in defensive ratings?

[Maxbialystock]

Seems more fair than saying he’s far and away the best CFer right now.

 

Agree with both--that he is among the top 5 defensive centerfielders in MLB and that he is not the greatest centerfielder in a generation or whatever. I think those who are saying he's the greatest do so to justify keeping him in the lineup despite his horrible slump.

 

In 2014 I was very enthusiastic about JBJ as our starting rookie centerfielder because I thought Ellsbury was way overpriced and the Sox were right to let the Yankees steal him away. But he ended up in Pawtucket because he could not hit MLB pitching, and that continued until he was called back again in August 2015 and suddenly blossomed as a hitter, which continued all the way through the 2016 season and sort of (his OPS went below .750) in 2017. For those 2 2/3 seasons I thought we had a very good all around centerfielder who was an especially good defender.

 

This year I expected the same, and I'll bet the Sox FO and new manager did too. For roughly the first 20 games, JBJ was good enough at the plate to keep his regular job, but then three things happened.

 

The Sox incredible winning streaks stopped and the Yankees went on their own tear and caught and passed the Sox for the best record in MLB.

 

At the same time, the pitching dropped off a tad, the hitting became that more important, and the bottom third of the lineup became more and more of a drag on the offense.

 

JBJ became the most expendable guy in the bottom third because Nunez was still our best bat at 2B, Leon/Vazquez were the only viable options at catcher, and JBJ went into an even worse slump.

[Bellhorn04]

So he's #4/5 in the Fielding Bible - usually accepted as the Gold Standard for fielding - and middle of the pack statistically. When people who rate defense for a living can't agree on how good JBJ is how can mere underlings like us have any faith in defensive ratings?

 

I don't disagree with you that there are some issues with the disparities in defensive metrics.

[OH FOY]

Its OK to have a Defensive Strength up the middle, CF and Catcher, and give up some Offense. Teams were using this formula for years. The good wining teams. But, the most important factor for this to work is you better have dynamic Pitching.

That's where Weaver phrase comes in....Pitching, Defense, and 3 Run HR. It starts with Pitching. Defense compliments this, 3 Run HR means your within 2 Runs of taking the lead, in a low scoring game because of Pitching. One mistake, by Opponent.

[a700hitter]

Blair played the shallowest CF ever. Took tons of runs away, you couldn't score from 2nd on singles, and almost always got to the ball over his head. Didn't rely on arm, got unreal jumps on the ball. Even when he was old, with the Yanks, saw him in Old Yankee Stadium, it was amazing, he was flagging them down in that Canyon.

Ball hit to Center 400 ft. and runner at 3rd with less than 2 out your going to score 99% of the time unless, you fall down going home.

You want to stop the runs from 2nd, on hits.

I saw Blair play, and he was still great as he got older. I saw him make one of the greatest catches that I have seen in person at Yankee Stadium. I believe that Fred Lynn was the hitter. He torched a drive to deep CF — easily a double, possibly a triple. By the time I looked up Blair was in full flight with his back to Home plate. He never looked back. At the very end he looked over his right shoulder and flicked up his glove above his right shoulder to catch the ball and then decelerated about a step and a half from the wall and veered to his left and never even hit the wall. It was amazing. He knew exactly where that ball was going from the crack of the bat and ran to the spot without looking until the end and he knew exactly where the wall was.

 

People forget that skinny Blair was a plus hitter until he took a fastball off the noggin from Nolan Ryan.

[Slasher9]

The worst Red Sox contract ever.

 

SSS much?

But whatever. Mr. Tingles pitched great until the 9th. If only we can get him to pitch against our most hated rival...

[Maxbialystock]

I saw Blair play, and he was still great as he got older. I saw him make one of the greatest catches that I have seen in person at Yankee Stadium. I believe that Fred Lynn was the hitter. He torched a drive to deep CF — easily a double, possibly a triple. By the time I looked up Blair was in full flight with his back to Home plate. He never looked back. At the very end he looked over his right shoulder and flicked up his glove above his right shoulder to catch the ball and then decelerated about a step and a half from the wall and veered to his left and never even hit the wall. It was amazing. He knew exactly where that ball was going from the crack of the bat and ran to the spot without looking until the end and he knew exactly where the wall was.

 

People forget that skinny Blair was a plus hitter until he took a fastball off the noggin from Nolan Ryan.

 

Anecdotal, but very impressive. I like both points: he played in to catch short flies/lines and prevent scoring from 2b on singles; he could also go deep and snag long shots.

[a700hitter]

Anecdotal, but very impressive. I like both points: he played in to catch short flies/lines and prevent scoring from 2b on singles; he could also go deep and snag long shots.

I think the metrics would support my observations.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the metrics would support my observations.

 

Metrics were good to Blair.

 

Also good to Mark Belanger, who ended his career with a .580 OPS but a bWAR of 40.9.

[a700hitter]

Metrics were good to Blair.

 

Also good to Mark Belanger, who ended his career with a .580 OPS but a bWAR of 40.9.

If the metrics were bad for those guys, it would be good reason to distrust the metrics. Those guys were great fielders.