David Price velocity thread

[OH FOY]

You tell me. It hasn't changed? Probably hasn't changed, but teams are now learning how to Control a Players best years, while they are cheap. Edited May 5, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Kimmi]

That’s certainly a possibility. Is there a velo difference from before and after that start?

 

There's only a 2 game sample this season before the start, but there's no change in FB velocity. 92.4 before and 92.5 after. His FB velocity out of the pen at the end of last year was 94.7, but that was out of the pen.

 

What's interesting is that before the tingling, again in only a 2 game sample, Price threw his FB 44.9% of the time. He was throwing more cutters, curves, and changes. Since the tingling, his FB usage has increased to 53.2%. Might that be a result of the injury? Might that be why he has not been as effective?

[Kimmi]

What makes you think anything's changed?

 

You would think, at least hope, that by now, GMs have wised up to the idea of signing older pitchers to long term contracts.

[Bellhorn04]

You would think, at least hope, that by now, GMs have wised up to the idea of signing older pitchers to long term contracts.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

The Scherzer signing actually looks great.

 

The Lester signing is holding up fairly well.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Something to think about: Logan Allen could surpass D.Price as a better major league pitcher next year. Though, 2020 is more likely.

[jacksonianmarch]

There's only a 2 game sample this season before the start, but there's no change in FB velocity. 92.4 before and 92.5 after. His FB velocity out of the pen at the end of last year was 94.7, but that was out of the pen.

 

What's interesting is that before the tingling, again in only a 2 game sample, Price threw his FB 44.9% of the time. He was throwing more cutters, curves, and changes. Since the tingling, his FB usage has increased to 53.2%. Might that be a result of the injury? Might that be why he has not been as effective?

 

Or is he falling behind more and needing to try and locate?

[harmony]

Seattle icon Felix Hernandez has seen the velocity of his fastball drop significantly since the right-hander signed a seven-year, $175 million extension in February 2013 two months shy of his 27th birthday:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4772&position=P#pitchtype

 

Hernandez has posted 16.1 fWAR, valued at $122.9 million, on the contract that runs through next season.

 

David Price, who is seven-and-a-half months older than Hernandez, has posted 6.5 fWAR, valued at $51.7 million, so far under his seven-year, $217 million contract that runs through the 2022 season.

 

In the first two seasons of their respective seven-year contracts, Hernandez posted 11.8 fWAR, valued at $88.7 million, while Price posted 5.9 fWAR, valued at $47.5 million.

 

Long-term contract too often end up underwater.

[Natick to NC]

Here's the problem ....David Price can throw a baseball .....David Price can't pitch worth a s*** .The problems with price knowledge and lack there of ....it does not help David to have s***** Catchers who call average games at best.

[Station 13]

Same catchers who helped Porcello win a CY? Sale coming in 2nd in voting last year?

[Bellhorn04]

Same catchers who helped Porcello win a CY? Sale coming in 2nd in voting last year?

 

Plus the Sox have the 6th best ERA in MLB this year and the 3rd best park-adjusted ERA.

[Larry Cook]

Hitters are teeing off on price's Fastball as it lacks any movement and weak location. So he has started throwing some sort of cutter which he had success with early but now teams are laying off and forcing him back to the fastball,

[oldtimer]

Hitters are teeing off on price's Fastball as it lacks any movement and weak location. So he has started throwing some sort of cutter which he had success with early but now teams are laying off and forcing him back to the fastball,

 

His velocity is down a little and he has to become more of a pitcher. His command must be better to do that. We have a huge investment in him so lets hope that isn't another case of sunken cost for us. As long as his arm is sound there is a chance he can be a productive pitcher for us and we certainly need him to go with Porcello and Sale.

[Maxbialystock]

There's only a 2 game sample this season before the start, but there's no change in FB velocity. 92.4 before and 92.5 after. His FB velocity out of the pen at the end of last year was 94.7, but that was out of the pen.

 

What's interesting is that before the tingling, again in only a 2 game sample, Price threw his FB 44.9% of the time. He was throwing more cutters, curves, and changes. Since the tingling, his FB usage has increased to 53.2%. Might that be a result of the injury? Might that be why he has not been as effective?

 

Pretty neat observation.

[Kimmi]

Maybe, maybe not.

 

The Scherzer signing actually looks great.

 

The Lester signing is holding up fairly well.

 

How many of these types of contracts actually end up working out though? You might get lucky, but more often than not, the contract will end up biting the team.

[Kimmi]

Here's the problem ....David Price can throw a baseball .....David Price can't pitch worth a s*** .The problems with price knowledge and lack there of ....it does not help David to have s***** Catchers who call average games at best.

 

Seriously, you need to stop with the catcher bashing. You went on and on in the game thread about how Vaz was causing ERod to pitch badly. What about how great the pen pitched for the remainder of the game?

 

Even without the stats, Vaz is touted around the league as a great defensive catcher.

 

If you want to bash his offense, then have at it. But defensively, just stop.

[Kimmi]

Same catchers who helped Porcello win a CY? Sale coming in 2nd in voting last year?

 

I am wondering if Cora should start pairing up Leon with Sale again. Not to take anything away from Vaz, but sometimes pitchers just work better with certain catchers for one reason or another.

[Bellhorn04]

How many of these types of contracts actually end up working out though? You might get lucky, but more often than not, the contract will end up biting the team.

 

Oh, I don't disagree.

 

There are no easy answers. So much risk.

 

Even signing Mookie Betts to a long-term deal, which we all want to happen, could backfire.

[Kimmi]

Oh, I don't disagree.

 

There are no easy answers. So much risk.

 

Even signing Mookie Betts to a long-term deal, which we all want to happen, could backfire.

 

I'd hate to lose Mookie as much as anyone would, but even for him, I would not go crazy on a long term deal. He is one that I would break the bank for, meaning 6-7 years, but I would not sign him for more than 7. And even that would hurt.

[Kimmi]

Oh, I don't disagree.

 

There are no easy answers. So much risk.

 

Even signing Mookie Betts to a long-term deal, which we all want to happen, could backfire.

 

Mitch Moreland and Rick Porcello type deals - that's what I'm all about.

 

And I'm not just saying that because both players are doing well right now. I have been on board with those two contracts since the beginning, and will continue to be on board with them if the players start to drop off.

[S5Dewey]

Oh, I don't disagree.

 

There are no easy answers. So much risk.

 

Even signing Mookie Betts to a long-term deal, which we all want to happen, could backfire.

 

It could. Anything is possible. But I'm rapidly coming around to having the opinion that Mookie is one of the few players in the game that you build a team around.

 

I know it's easy to jump on the Mookie bandwagon right now while he's hitting almost 1 HR/game, but even if you look at his production on both sides of the ball over his career his stats scream SIGN HIM... whatever it takes.

 

Disclaimer: "whatever it takes" means letting him go to FA (if necessary) and then paying slightly more than the next highest suitor.

[oldtimer]

It could. Anything is possible. But I'm rapidly coming around to having the opinion that Mookie is one of the few players in the game that you build a team around.

 

I know it's easy to jump on the Mookie bandwagon right now while he's hitting almost 1 HR/game, but even if you look at his production on both sides of the ball over his career his stats scream SIGN HIM... whatever it takes.

 

Disclaimer: "whatever it takes" means letting him go to FA (if necessary) and then paying slightly more than the next highest suitor.

 

Mookie is a great talent and has an excellent temperment so is a must have player. I agree the Sox need to keep him. The problem the Sox have is they have inked some really ill thought out contracts that will hang over the team and make it difficult to sign our good young players while staying under the luxury tax limit.

 

In order of the problems the FO has created are:

 

Price over $30 mil a year through 2022. Incredibly bad signing, even if he had been an ace for a couple of years, which he hasn't

Sandoval $18 Mil through 2019 with a $5 Mil kicker in 2020

Hanley $22.7 Mil through 2019 if he continues to be played daily (as he has) At least he is producing something for the money.

Pedroia $12 Mil through 2021

Castillo $11.7 Mil through 2020 even if it doesn't coulnt toward the luxury tax

 

We need to sign Mookie ad Bogaerts and take care of our pitchers. I hope we keep Kimbrel but maybe we won't be able to afford him.

[Larry Cook]

I think Pomeranz and Kimbrel are out of here at season end.

 

We have way too many untradable contracts.

 

What would be nice is if we could develop a starting pitcher or two.

[notin]

The Sox need to identify some underrated pitching talent. While likely unaffordable anyway, they did miss out on Miles Mikolas this off-season. Mikolas was an underrated guy I was writing about back on BDC in my occasional "Hidden Gem" posts.

 

(I'm not calling myself a scout here. "Hidden Gems" had more misses than hits, and calling Mikolas a hit is probably premature right now. But there are guys like him out there.)

[jacksonianmarch]

Mikolas has a sweet stache too

[harmony]

The Sox need to identify some underrated pitching talent. While likely unaffordable anyway, they did miss out on Miles Mikolas this off-season. Mikolas was an underrated guy I was writing about back on BDC in my occasional "Hidden Gem" posts.

 

(I'm not calling myself a scout here. "Hidden Gems" had more misses than hits, and calling Mikolas a hit is probably premature right now. But there are guys like him out there.)

I wanted the Seattle Mariners to pursue Miles Mikolas last offseason but I'm pleased to have the 29-year-old righthander on my fantasy team at the league minimum salary.

[Bellhorn04]

I wanted the Seattle Mariners to pursue Miles Mikolas last offseason but I'm pleased to have the 29-year-old righthander on my fantasy team at the league minimum salary.

 

No offense but statements like this remind me why I have no use for fantasy leagues. You're 'pleased' because you 'have' him on a team that exists only in the gaming ether with millions of other imaginary teams.

[Kimmi]

The Sox need to identify some underrated pitching talent. While likely unaffordable anyway, they did miss out on Miles Mikolas this off-season. Mikolas was an underrated guy I was writing about back on BDC in my occasional "Hidden Gem" posts.

 

(I'm not calling myself a scout here. "Hidden Gems" had more misses than hits, and calling Mikolas a hit is probably premature right now. But there are guys like him out there.)

 

That's exactly my feeling. The "Hidden Gems", who can be acquired for relatively cheap, are out there. Dombrowski and his crew need to find them.

[Natick to NC]

I think Pomeranz and Kimbrel are out of here at season end.

 

We have way too many untradable contracts.

 

What would be nice is if we could develop a starting pitcher or two.

 

Yes to pom leaving ....good riddance ...but Craig gets paid here

[jacksonianmarch]

That's exactly my feeling. The "Hidden Gems", who can be acquired for relatively cheap, are out there. Dombrowski and his crew need to find them.

 

Hidden gems are exactly that. They are hidden and as they are gems, they are rare. Your best bet would be to develop solid talent which has been a major issue during the DD years. If you are talking about arms, that goes all the way back to the Theo years. The sox haven't developed a good starter since Lester and Buchholz came up.

[Kimmi]

Hidden gems are exactly that. They are hidden and as they are gems, they are rare. Your best bet would be to develop solid talent which has been a major issue during the DD years. If you are talking about arms, that goes all the way back to the Theo years. The sox haven't developed a good starter since Lester and Buchholz came up.

 

I am all about developing our own talent. But since Dombrowski traded it all away, his task is now to find those hidden gems.

 

And even is we did have a strong farm system, the task is still to find those hidden gems rather than handing out those atrocious contracts that almost always end up handcuffing the team.

 

It's easy to hand out $250 mil to sign a player. Find me that hidden gem.