Stros get Cole

[jacksonianmarch]

Colin Moran and Joe Musgrave for Gerrit Cole? They didn’t give up much

[jacksonianmarch]

Moran had stalled up until last year where he broke out as a 25 yr old in AAA. Musgrove looks like a 5th starter with middling stuff. No Top 100 prospects. The fact that the Pirates asked for Torres and got this pile of s*** is infuriating

[Jasonbay44]

Wow, seems like Pirates sold low.

[notin]

Moran had stalled up until last year where he broke out as a 25 yr old in AAA. Musgrove looks like a 5th starter with middling stuff. No Top 100 prospects. The fact that the Pirates asked for Torres and got this pile of s*** is infuriating

 

When you have a guy they want, some GMs just don't back down from him.

 

The Yankees probably should have considered giving up Torres...

[jacksonianmarch]

Really? Torres is a top 3 prospect in baseball who experts predict will be a perennial all star. You don't give that up

[notin]

The Pirates also got outfielder Jason Martin and RHP Michael Feliz.

 

Minorleagueball.com has Moran as the#5 prospect and Martin at #13.

Edited January 14, 2018 by notin

[notin]

Really? Torres is a top 3 prospect in baseball who experts predict will be a perennial all star. You don't give that up

 

Corey Patterson was the #2 prospect. Sometimes maybe you do.

 

Bear in mind that the best GM in baseball gave Torres up for a rental...

Edited January 14, 2018 by notin

[notin]

Moran had stalled up until last year where he broke out as a 25 yr old in AAA. Musgrove looks like a 5th starter with middling stuff. No Top 100 prospects. The fact that the Pirates asked for Torres and got this pile of s*** is infuriating

 

Are you really getting upset by this? They gave up a lot more to get Cole than the Yankees did to get Stanton...

[moonslav59]

What's a comparative offer the Sox might have made to top this one?

[jacksonianmarch]

Notin, Come doesn’t have a 10 yr contract attached

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Looks like word is getting around on Clint Frazier. The Yankees tried to dump him on the Pirates for Cole and the Pirates found the Astros offer to be more attractive.

 

What's a comparative offer the Sox might have made to top this one?

The Red Sox could have put together an offer with more minor league talent, but I suspect the Pirates wanted major league ready talent based on what they received from the Astros. As such, I'm not sure if the Red Sox/Pirates matched up very well.

[jacksonianmarch]

You’re so misguided and so one note. The Pirates wanted Frazier and Andujar or Torres plus a pitcher. The Yankees offered Frazier plus a pitcher. Torres and Andujar are starters for us right now.

 

I cannot wait to see Frazier show you how misguided you are. Did the kid bang your sister or something?

 

To be honest with you, I think the Yanks are keen on keeping Frazier now. Gardner is in the final guaranteed year of his deal and at an option value of $14 mil as a 35/36 yr old in 2019, he’s likely not worth it. Frazier will be our insurance policy if Gardy falls off or if we don’t land Harper.

 

In the end, this is a head scratcher. Musgrove was dominant as a reliever for Houston as he saw a major velocity bump in short spurts, but as a starter, his stuff wasn’t special. He’s a back end starter. Moran is probably their best get, but he’s an older prospect who finally had a good minor league season as a 25 yr old. Feliz has a big arm, but he hasn’t proven to be reliable yet. Martin had a good 2017, but he’s not well regarded as of yet because he hasn’t proven much beyond A ball. They dealt Cole for quantity, not quality

Edited January 14, 2018 by jacksonianmarch

[jacksonianmarch]

Rosenthal notes that the Pirates wanted Frazier as the centerpiece if they couldn’t have Torres but the hangup was on the other pieces. Frazier is a better get than anything the Pirates got for Cole. The interesting thing about PIT is that they are similar to the A’s. Their requests for their premium players are usually outside the box of big prospects and usually they deal for safe assets over High potential

[moonslav59]

Looks like word is getting around on Clint Frazier. The Yankees tried to dump him on the Pirates for Cole and the Pirates found the Astros offer to be more attractive.

 

 

The Red Sox could have put together an offer with more minor league talent, but I suspect the Pirates wanted major league ready talent based on what they received from the Astros. As such, I'm not sure if the Red Sox/Pirates matched up very well.

 

So, how about ERod, Hembree and Beeks?

[Kimmi]

I like the Astros more and more everyday. If I weren't a Red Sox fan, I would jump on the Stros bandwagon.

[moonslav59]

I like the Astros more and more everyday. If I weren't a Red Sox fan, I would jump on the Stros bandwagon.

 

I live in Sugar Land, Texas- just Southwest of Houston. They are a fun team to watch, and they are managed very well.

 

The Cole trade was a steal. I'm very surprised nobody could top that offer, even a team like the Sox with a depleted farm. Word is, the two prospects the Pirates got were "throw-in" types.

[Bellhorn04]

I live in Sugar Land, Texas- just Southwest of Houston. They are a fun team to watch, and they are managed very well.

 

The Cole trade was a steal. I'm very surprised nobody could top that offer, even a team like the Sox with a depleted farm. Word is, the two prospects the Pirates got were "throw-in" types.

 

We may be lucky the Yanks didn't get him for a similar steal.

[moonslav59]

We may be lucky the Yanks didn't get him for a similar steal.

 

True, but we need a 5th starter. Cole is a decent 3 starter. I'm wondering why we didn't make a try. (Maybe we did.)

[notin]

True, but we need a 5th starter. Cole is a decent 3 starter. I'm wondering why we didn't make a try. (Maybe we did.)

 

With what?

[moonslav59]

With what?

 

It's not like they got much from the 'Stros.

 

How about sending them ERod, Marrero and Hembree?

[notin]

It's not like they got much from the 'Stros.

 

How about sending them ERod, Marrero and Hembree?

 

Well, for starters because that package is vastly inferior.

 

Musgrove (1.7 fWAR in 171 IP) to date has been less effective than ERod (5.0 fWAR in 366 IP), but has an extra year of control. Feliz has outperformed Hembree, albeit marginally. Both have similar control left.

 

But that leaves Deven Marrero as a the counter-offering to both Colin Moran and Jerry Martin, who were both ranked in the top 13 of a better Astros system. The Pirates wouldn't take that offer if you held held Neal Huntington's kids for ransom.

 

And Marrero has the added bonus of being out of options. He actually might be a good add over Jordy Mercer at SS, but players as good as Marrero will be available on the market for very cheap deals.

 

If you replaced Marrero with Chavis and add a player like Cole Brannen or Bobby Dalbec, you're at least almost there...

[moonslav59]

Well, for starters because that package is vastly inferior.

 

Musgrove (1.7 fWAR in 171 IP) to date has been less effective than ERod (5.0 fWAR in 366 IP), but has an extra year of control. Feliz has outperformed Hembree, albeit marginally. Both have similar control left.

 

But that leaves Deven Marrero as a the counter-offering to both Colin Moran and Jerry Martin, who were both ranked in the top 13 of a better Astros system. The Pirates wouldn't take that offer if you held held Neal Huntington's kids for ransom.

 

And Marrero has the added bonus of being out of options. He actually might be a good add over Jordy Mercer at SS, but players as good as Marrero will be available on the market for very cheap deals.

 

If you replaced Marrero with Chavis and add a player like Cole Brannen or Bobby Dalbec, you're at least almost there...

 

I'd take ERod over Musgrove, despite the year less of control. I agree on Feliz > Hembree. I do not think it would take Chavis & Dalbec to improve on Moran & Martin.

 

Maybe....

 

ERod, Hembree, Marrero or Lin plus 1 or two from Ockimey, Shawaryn, Beeks & Dalbec.

[notin]

I'd take ERod over Musgrove, despite the year less of control. I agree on Feliz > Hembree. I do not think it would take Chavis & Dalbec to improve on Moran & Martin.

 

Maybe....

 

ERod, Hembree, Marrero or Lin plus 1 or two from Ockimey, Shawaryn, Beeks & Dalbec.

 

 

MLB-readiness is the new thing. Teams are apparently sick of getting burned by high upside A-ball guys who flame out before AA.

 

I don't think Marrero or Lin really have anything in terms of trade value. Every team in MLB has good glove/no bat infielders rapidly running out of options.

 

Really, there is nothing in that offer that looks more appealing than Colin Moran, and the best chance the Sox would have had would be to include Chavis. Even then, maybe Pittsburgh doesn't like him. But it's a safe bet no matter how they feel about him, they like him better than they like Marrero or Lin...

[moonslav59]

MLB-readiness is the new thing. Teams are apparently sick of getting burned by high upside A-ball guys who flame out before AA.

 

I don't think Marrero or Lin really have anything in terms of trade value. Every team in MLB has good glove/no bat infielders rapidly running out of options.

 

Really, there is nothing in that offer that looks more appealing than Colin Moran, and the best chance the Sox would have had would be to include Chavis. Even then, maybe Pittsburgh doesn't like him. But it's a safe bet no matter how they feel about him, they like him better than they like Marrero or Lin...

 

If all this is true, I would have given ERod, Hembree, Chavis and Beeks for Cole. (If they wanted Marrero, he could go, too.)

[notin]

If all this is true, I would have given ERod, Hembree, Chavis and Beeks for Cole. (If they wanted Marrero, he could go, too.)

 

Is that really any better than Musgrove, Feliz, Martin and Moran?

 

Bear in mind, they reportedly liked Martin to some extent.

 

I really doubt Deven Marrero would make a difference in any trade either way. (Yet I would keep him on the 25-man roster ahead of Holt.)