2017-18 International Signing Period

[Jack Flap]

Haven't seen a post/thread about this, but the July 2nd signing period is coming up, and with the Red Sox out of their penalty period, it's nice to see us linked to some legitimate international prospects once again (with a chance to go even bigger if we can trade for more pool money)...

 

Per Baseball America’s Ben Badler, the Red Sox are expected to land two top-10 international amateurs: catcher Daniel Flores and shortstop Danny Diaz, both from Venezuela.

 

Flores could be an elite big-league defender and has had high bonus demands. MLB.com's Jesse Sanchez ranked Flores as the second best prospect in this year's crop. Sanchez and Badler both expect Diaz and Flores to land with the Sox.

 

Wrote Badler: "Given Boston’s expected international activity, the Red Sox will probably be trading up for more international bonus pool money once they’re allowed to make a trade beginning on July 2."

 

Diaz "has advanced feel to hit for his age, uses the middle of the field and hits the ball hard now with a chance to develop plus power," and is likely bound for third base, per Badler.

 

http://www.csnne.com/boston-red-sox/red-sox-came-out-firing-after-international-signings-punishment

[Jack Flap]

MLB.com's top 30 international prospects: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=int

 

Boston is expected to sign Daniel Flores (#2), Danny Diaz (#13), and Antoni Flores (#20).

[Fan_since_Boggs]

A question about this process. If teams go over their spending limit on international prospects, what is the penalty? Is it the same penalty that existed when the Red Sox signed Moncada, etc. a few years ago? I'm pretty sure the rules were changed, but I don't recall the new penalties for over-the-limit spending.

[Jack Flap]

A question about this process. If teams go over their spending limit on international prospects, what is the penalty? Is it the same penalty that existed when the Red Sox signed Moncada, etc. a few years ago? I'm pretty sure the rules were changed, but I don't recall the new penalties for over-the-limit spending.

 

As I understand it, there is no more "going over the limit" and paying a penalty...the new CBA includes a hard cap.

[Hugh2]

As I understand it, there is no more "going over the limit" and paying a penalty...the new CBA includes a hard cap.

 

Yup, that's the way I understand it as well. Now I could be wrong about this but I believe there are still a few teams that spent big the last two years who were under a weird restriction where they had their hard cap and also couldn't sign anyone for more than 300K but I'm uncertain.

 

It seems like the Red Sox were ok with signing a few extra guys by trading for extra pool space. The Sox invest heavily in South America and Latin America, and they've seem to of done better than most teams over the past decade, so lets hope that trend continues.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Thanks. So basically, with a hard cap, there is no more spending over the limit. A team that does go over the limit will probably lose all the players they signed.

 

This is a better system.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

Yup, that's the way I understand it as well. Now I could be wrong about this but I believe there are still a few teams that spent big the last two years who were under a weird restriction where they had their hard cap and also couldn't sign anyone for more than 300K but I'm uncertain.

 

It seems like the Red Sox were ok with signing a few extra guys by trading for extra pool space. The Sox invest heavily in South America and Latin America, and they've seem to of done better than most teams over the past decade, so lets hope that trend continues.

 

Very true. We did swing and miss on Castillo, but we have used many of our recent signings to put together packages for some good to great players. We currently have Sox-signed international players, Devers, Bogey, HRam, Lin and Velazquez (and others) on the roster.

Chris Sale for Yoan Moncada, Luis Basabe, Victor Diaz and another

Craig Kimbrel for Margot and others

Drew Pomeranz for Anderson Espinoza

Adisson Reed for Gerson Bautista and others

Carson Smith for Jonathan Aro and another

Marco Hernandez for Doubront

Brock Holt for Stolmy Pimental and others

 

In the recent past, we also got Ziegler for Basabe and J Almonte and Jake Peaavy for Iggy and Montas-both Int'l FA signings

[Hugh2]

Thanks. So basically, with a hard cap, there is no more spending over the limit. A team that does go over the limit will probably lose all the players they signed.

 

This is a better system.

 

I agree I like it much better than an international draft. It is fairer, but it still allows some teams such as the Sox who scout and invest heavily in the area to come out better than other teams.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yankees nabbed #4 Pereira, #11 Rojas, #16 Chirinos, and #28 Garcia.

 

Red Sox nabbed #2 Flores, #13 Diaz, #20 Flores

[Hugh2]

Yankees nabbed #4 Pereira, #11 Rojas, #16 Chirinos, and #28 Garcia.

 

Red Sox nabbed #2 Flores, #13 Diaz, #20 Flores

 

BA Rankings

 

Sox #2 Flores #7 Diaz #35 Flores

 

Not that it makes much of a difference, they are higher on Diaz and lower on Flores. I trust BA more with international guys but both the Yankees and Red Sox have done well with international guys. As a matter of fact, until recently the only real young talent the Yankees were able to bring in was international guys.

[moonslav59]

BA Rankings

 

Sox #2 Flores #7 Diaz #35 Flores

 

Not that it makes much of a difference, they are higher on Diaz and lower on Flores. I trust BA more with international guys but both the Yankees and Red Sox have done well with international guys. As a matter of fact, until recently the only real young talent the Yankees were able to bring in was international guys.

 

This was one area I felt the Sox would struggle with going forward, and one reason I feel there will be a "cliff" in 3-4 years. After these signings and word that the Sox are "in" on that two-way player from Korea is giving me reason to have hope I'll be wrong.

[jacksonianmarch]

BA Rankings

 

Sox #2 Flores #7 Diaz #35 Flores

 

Not that it makes much of a difference, they are higher on Diaz and lower on Flores. I trust BA more with international guys but both the Yankees and Red Sox have done well with international guys. As a matter of fact, until recently the only real young talent the Yankees were able to bring in was international guys.

 

And for every Gary Sanchez ($3 mil signee), there is a Luis Severino ($225K signee). It is difficult to predict how a 16 yr old will develop

[Jack Flap]

Wasn't sure where else to put this, but in the wake of the Braves getting slammed with penalties for various international violations, I wonder if the Red Sox will make a run at Kevin Maitan or any of the other prospects whose contracts were voided.

 

The 13 players keep their bonuses from the Braves, must obtain new representatives and will be free to negotiate as free agents with other teams from Dec. 5 through Jan. 15.

 

As part of an agreement between MLB and the players' association, a club can use money from either its 2017-18 or 2018-19 signing bonus pool to sign a player but can't combine money from both pools in one contract. The first $200,000 of a signing bonus will not count against a team's limit, but the $300,000 maximum remains for teams subject to the penalty for exceeding their pool under the previous labor contract.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21506598/ex-atlanta-braves-gm-john-coppolella-placed-mlb-banned-list-team-loses-prospects

[jacksonianmarch]

I am sure a lot of teams will be looking at those guys. There are a few more teams with big money. I bet the kids are waiting for the Otani sweepstakes to be over. At that point, there will be 5 or 6 other teams with more than $1 mil left in their 2017 budget. My bet is Maitan sees another 7 figure bonus, as well as the catcher whose name escapes me. The rest will probably not be significant

[SCM33]

I am sure a lot of teams will be looking at those guys. There are a few more teams with big money. I bet the kids are waiting for the Otani sweepstakes to be over. At that point, there will be 5 or 6 other teams with more than $1 mil left in their 2017 budget. My bet is Maitan sees another 7 figure bonus, as well as the catcher whose name escapes me. The rest will probably not be significant

 

I already voiced my opinion on foreign players with Otani.

 

I'll say it here too, so all races are included since moonslav insinuated I am racist. Why bother in investing in all of these untested, unchallenged players from countries other than the DR? If they wanted to play with the big boys, they would have found a way to get to the US and compete collegiately. It almost seems like they go for the easy route, putting up huge numbers against AA competition and remaining where they are until they are 27/28 years old, then getting a huge payday.

 

Want proof of the inferior competition? Just take a look at these MLB flameouts:

Orestes Destrade

Randy Bass

Julio Zuleta

Tuffy Rhodes

Alex Cabrera

Wladimir Balentien

 

All of them were HUGE home run hitting stars in professional baseball outside of the MLB. Why? Because they were playing against A/AA quality players, thats why.

[Spudboy]

I already voiced my opinion on foreign players with Otani.

 

I'll say it here too, so all races are included since moonslav insinuated I am racist. Why bother in investing in all of these untested, unchallenged players from countries other than the DR? If they wanted to play with the big boys, they would have found a way to get to the US and compete collegiately. It almost seems like they go for the easy route, putting up huge numbers against AA competition and remaining where they are until they are 27/28 years old, then getting a huge payday.

 

Want proof of the inferior competition? Just take a look at these MLB flameouts:

Orestes Destrade

Randy Bass

Julio Zuleta

Tuffy Rhodes

Alex Cabrera

Wladimir Balentien

 

All of them were HUGE home run hitting stars in professional baseball outside of the MLB. Why? Because they were playing against A/AA quality players, thats why.

 

Well part of it is that everyone is conditioned to get their panties all wet with the shinny new toy from another country. That and lack of a draft for such players, I guess.

 

I have many misgivings about Cuban players.

[moonslav59]

Many prospects who beat up on A/AA and even AAA pitchers flame out in MLB. My guess is that there is a similar, if not a lesser flame out rate for foreign players who played several years in other countries.

 

You rarely get a chance to sign some other team's minor league players putting up big numbers. It's much easier to gauge value of players in the minors vs college. I'm thinking it's easier to scout foreign players than HS or college players, because the competition is a little more known and consistent. The opponents HS and college players face are wildly sporadic and un-measurable.

[moonslav59]

Well part of it is that everyone is conditioned to get their panties all wet with the shinny new toy from another country. That and lack of a draft for such players, I guess.

 

I have many misgivings about Cuban players.

 

Yes, the lack of a draft is a huge aspect.

 

It is reasonable to have misgivings about any signing or draftee.

[SCM33]

Many prospects who beat up on A/AA and even AAA pitchers flame out in MLB. My guess is that there is a similar, if not a lesser flame out rate for foreign players who played several years in other countries.

 

You rarely get a chance to sign some other team's minor league players putting up big numbers. It's much easier to gauge value of players in the minors vs college. I'm thinking it's easier to scout foreign players than HS or college players, because the competition is a little more known and consistent. The opponents HS and college players face are wildly sporadic and un-measurable.

 

This makes no sense. When the player is 25+ years old, he is no longer considered a MLB prospect. Its not easier to scout foreign players, thats why so few of them actually produce. Much easier to scout a collegiate player, since that's what they have always done. Foreign amateur competition is impossible to scout, since its no where near the competition in the collegiate levels.

 

You still didn't quote correctly and everything is bold, not sure if you said it, or someone else did.

[moonslav59]

I'm hoping we can score with some international free agents,

 

Without them and the players we got by trading some of them, it's hard to imagine where we'd be right now without them.

 

Many were not from the D. R. Many were.

 

Devers (DR)

Bogey (Aruba)

Moncada (Cuba) centerpiece of Sale Trade

Espinoza (Venezuela) got us Pomeranz

Margot (DR) centerpiece for Kimbrel trade

Basabe brothers (Venezuela) traded away

Hector Velazquez (Mexico)

Lin (Taiwan)

Castillo (Cuba)

 

Current IFA prospects:

Mata (Venezuela)

D Diaz (Venezuela)

D Hernandez (Venezuela)

 

[Jack Flap]

I already voiced my opinion on foreign players with Otani.

 

I'll say it here too, so all races are included since moonslav insinuated I am racist. Why bother in investing in all of these untested, unchallenged players from countries other than the DR? If they wanted to play with the big boys, they would have found a way to get to the US and compete collegiately. It almost seems like they go for the easy route, putting up huge numbers against AA competition and remaining where they are until they are 27/28 years old, then getting a huge payday.

 

Want proof of the inferior competition? Just take a look at these MLB flameouts:

Orestes Destrade

Randy Bass

Julio Zuleta

Tuffy Rhodes

Alex Cabrera

Wladimir Balentien

 

All of them were HUGE home run hitting stars in professional baseball outside of the MLB. Why? Because they were playing against A/AA quality players, thats why.

 

This post really has nothing to do with the rest of the thread up to that point...

 

I'm hoping we can score with some international free agents,

 

Without them and the players we got by trading some of them, it's hard to imagine where we'd be right now without them.

 

Many were not from the D. R. Many were.

 

Devers (DR)

Bogey (Aruba)

Moncada (Cuba) centerpiece of Sale Trade

Espinoza (Venezuela) got us Pomeranz

Margot (DR) centerpiece for Kimbrel trade

Basabe brothers (Venezuela) traded away

Hector Velazquez (Mexico)

Lin (Taiwan)

Castillo (Cuba)

 

Current IFA prospects:

Mata (Venezuela)

D Diaz (Venezuela)

D Hernandez (Venezuela)

 

 

Agreed...the international market is simply another avenue of finding talent, and one that any club would be foolish not to take advantage of to the best of their abilities and resources. Naturally some misses are going to come with the territory - no different from the domestic draft, where you can drop a big bonus on a Mark Appel (or a Trey Ball) and watch them flame out, and where it's understood that only a small percentage are ever going to amount to anything significant.

[moonslav59]

One could argue the IFA market has been our best area of team building over the last 4-6 years.

 

We've bombed on most big FA signings.

 

Our drafts have not been all that great since 2011 with 2014 looking better than it did a while back.

[SCM33]

This post really has nothing to do with the rest of the thread up to that point...

 

Oh, I see you AND moonslav came from http://bostonredsoxforum.freeforums.net/ HAHAHAHAHAAH Nowwwwwwww I get it.......

[Spudboy]

Oh, I see you AND moonslav came from http://bostonredsoxforum.freeforums.net/ HAHAHAHAHAAH Nowwwwwwww I get it.......

 

Lol. You got it.

[Jack Flap]

Oh, I see you AND moonslav came from http://bostonredsoxforum.freeforums.net/ HAHAHAHAHAAH Nowwwwwwww I get it.......

 

I don't "come from" there....registered at one time, posted sparingly for a bit, didn't care for it much, left and haven't been back in probably a year or more. Your point...?

[SCM33]

Lol. You got it.

 

I don't "come from" there....registered at one time, posted sparingly for a bit, didn't care for it much, left and haven't been back in probably a year or more. Your point...?

 

Yup, these guys will get to know me REALLL well. ******** is not exactly something I tolerate.

 

The point, is those places suck, and so do you. GTFO

[Jack Flap]

I don't "come from" there....registered at one time, posted sparingly for a bit, didn't care for it much, left and haven't been back in probably a year or more. Your point...?

Yup, these guys will get to know me REALLL well. ******** is not exactly something I tolerate.

 

The point, is those places suck, and so do you. GTFO

 

That's what I thought.

 

Listen, dude, I don't know you...been posting here almost 2 years now and have never had a hint of a personal issue with anyone until you traipsed in with whatever this internet tough guy ******** is. If you have an issue with something I've posted and want to discuss it, then I'm around...but if substance-free insult attempts like the post I'm replying to are your thing, then knock yourself out, but I'll not be playing that game. Good night to you.

[SCM33]

That's what I thought.

 

Listen, dude, I don't know you...been posting here almost 2 years now and have never had a hint of a personal issue with anyone until you traipsed in with whatever this internet tough guy ******** is. If you have an issue with something I've posted and want to discuss it, then I'm around...but if substance-free insult attempts like the post I'm replying to are your thing, then knock yourself out, but I'll not be playing that game. Good night to you.

 

Internet tough guy does not describe me, and ******** certainly doesn't.

 

Don't think that you and your boy moonslav are going to tag team me without me being able to figure out what is going on. You have no idea what I do or know, just by querying your username

 

If that was an attempt at an apology, then it is accepted. Still waiting on moonslav's.

[Jack Flap]

Internet tough guy does not describe me, and ******** certainly doesn't.

 

Don't think that you and your boy moonslav are going to tag team me without me being able to figure out what is going on. You have no idea what I do or know, just by querying your username

 

If that was an attempt at an apology, then it is accepted. Still waiting on moonslav's.

 

I don't know where you see an apology in there, but whatever you need to tell yourself to get by.

 

Detente, though? That I'm always down for.

 

Not tag-teaming anyone, I assure you...I'm something of a lone wolf myself.

 

And feel free to query away, if you want to go down that rabbit hole.

[Jack Flap]

Lol. You got it.

 

Et tu, Spud?