Wade Miley: Not bad actually

[Kimmi]

$13 million for a half season of excellent to mediocre or a full season of sucks ass -- either way he's a bargain.

 

Clay's value, per Fangraphs, the last 3 years has been $20.8 mil, $11.1 mil, and $25.3 mil. A half season of excellent is worth well more than $13 mil, and a full season of mediocre is worth almost that.

 

It has been reported that several teams are already inquiring about Clay. They know how good a value his contract can be, and they know that he is well worth the risk of $13 million.

[Kimmi]

2013 and 2015 were both cut in half by injuries. That's a mediocre year to me.

 

I guess that depends on one's definition of mediocre. I don't think either of those seasons were mediocre, by any means. As I just posted above, look at how much he was worth in those two seasons based on his WAR.

[a700hitter]

Clay's value, per Fangraphs, the last 3 years has been $20.8 mil, $11.1 mil, and $25.3 mil. A half season of excellent is worth well more than $13 mil, and a full season of mediocre is worth almost that.

 

It has been reported that several teams are already inquiring about Clay. They know how good a value his contract can be, and they know that he is well worth the risk of $13 million.

of course these figures do not take into account the difficulty of finding another part time #1 or 2 to slot into the rotation when Buchholz goes down. It doesn't happen.

[cp176]

Clay's value, per Fangraphs, the last 3 years has been $20.8 mil, $11.1 mil, and $25.3 mil. A half season of excellent is worth well more than $13 mil, and a full season of mediocre is worth almost that.

 

It has been reported that several teams are already inquiring about Clay. They know how good a value his contract can be, and they know that he is well worth the risk of $13 million.

 

Pretty sad when you think how badly teams must need pitching if you consider what he is worth. So you must at least cut those numbers in half if you are talking about a guy who pitches half of the time? I really would hate to see the Sox ever be in a position where they have to count on him for anything.

[Kimmi]

of course these figures do not take into account the difficulty of finding another part time #1 or 2 to slot into the rotation when Buchholz goes down. It doesn't happen.

 

This is the importance of having depth, and another reason why picking up Clay's option is a no brainer. As I've said many times, you can't plan on Clay being the ace or on him giving the team a full season. This is what having someone like Owens in AAA is for.

[Kimmi]

Pretty sad when you think how badly teams must need pitching if you consider what he is worth. So you must at least cut those numbers in half if you are talking about a guy who pitches half of the time? I really would hate to see the Sox ever be in a position where they have to count on him for anything.

 

Most teams cannot afford to sign someone like Price or Greinke. Clay is a very good pitcher when he's healthy, and if he's healthy, $13 million is really a bargain. Other GMs know this. They also know the frustration that comes with Clay, but they know that his contract is worth the risk.

 

As far as cutting those numbers in half, are you talking about how much he was worth? He was worth $25.3 mil in 2015, even though he only pitched half the time. No need to cut anything in half.

[cp176]

Most teams cannot afford to sign someone like Price or Greinke. Clay is a very good pitcher when he's healthy, and if he's healthy, $13 million is really a bargain. Other GMs know this. They also know the frustration that comes with Clay, but they know that his contract is worth the risk.

 

As far as cutting those numbers in half, are you talking about how much he was worth? He was worth $25.3 mil in 2015, even though he only pitched half the time. No need to cut anything in half.

 

i guess he was pretty good. So common logic says Price and a few others must be worth - what - 50 million per year?

[a700hitter]

i guess he was pretty good. So common logic says Price and a few others must be worth - what - 50 million per year?

Why resort to logic when we have Fangraphs?

[Bellhorn04]

i guess he was pretty good. So common logic says Price and a few others must be worth - what - 50 million per year?

 

As a matter of fact, FanGraphs has Price's total value over the past 2 seasons at 97.3 million or 48.65 million average.

 

That's why he's going to get a deal worth 220 million or more.

 

It's insane but it's the current reality of MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's how crazy the money is: Brett Anderson and Colby Rasmus each received Qualifying Offers of 15.8 million.

[cp176]

As a matter of fact, FanGraphs has Price's total value over the past 2 seasons at 97.3 million or 48.65 million average.

 

That's why he's going to get a deal worth 220 million or more.

 

It's insane but it's the current reality of MLB.

 

It is insane for sure. If you use the stats, the suggestion is that he might be getting that over 4 or 5 years. I doubt that happens. I am a believer in using all of the statistical data that you can use to help in the making of any decisions but I have to say that if the suggestion is that Buchholtz was worth 25 mil on the open market last year and Price was worth 50 mil, it would look to me that someone is using the the stats to tell a story that they want to hear.

[cp176]

I am not opposed to thinking that Buchholz's contract should have been picked up. I'm just opposed to the thought line that he might provide any answers to this team moving forward. No matter what someone's stats say, I am not buying the fact that he was a 25 million dollar pitcher last year. I don't think his signing answers any of this team's questions about next year's rotation. A package of Buchholz and Swihart might get someone else to at least think about making a trade with us. If the Red Sox have 13 mil to pay for a part time player - great. Maybe he will help us. His career has certainly made me appreciate all of the great ones who go out there and play hurt, sick, and just plain beat up.

[cp176]

Here's how crazy the money is: Brett Anderson and Colby Rasmus each received Qualifying Offers of 15.8 million.

 

 

That is crazy!

[cp176]

The ridiculous numbers tend to make me care less and less about the game I grew up loving. It is a joke.

[Bellhorn04]

It is insane for sure. If you use the stats, the suggestion is that he might be getting that over 4 or 5 years. I doubt that happens. I am a believer in using all of the statistical data that you can use to help in the making of any decisions but I have to say that if the suggestion is that Buchholtz was worth 25 mil on the open market last year and Price was worth 50 mil, it would look to me that someone is using the the stats to tell a story that they want to hear.

 

The reason Buchholz is worth 13 million is that it's only a 1 year commitment. Plus there is a team option for a second year at 13.5 million if by some miracle Buch both pitches well and stays healthy.

[Bellhorn04]

The ridiculous numbers tend to make me care less and less about the game I grew up loving. It is a joke.

 

Agreed, and personally I'm waiting for the day when baseball's economic bubble bursts - it has to.

 

But when the games are being played you have to set all that stuff aside, the game of baseball itself is still great.

[cp176]

The reason Buchholz is worth 13 million is that it's only a 1 year commitment. Plus there is a team option for a second year at 13.5 million if by some miracle Buch both pitches well and stays healthy.

 

In terms of baseball economics today, it makes sense. Remember when 13 million seemed like a fortune? Just an average man's wage these days. I grew up poor so I probably could still get by on that paltry sum. My lifestyle would take some hits for sure but I could get by.

[Spudboy]

I am not opposed to thinking that Buchholz's contract should have been picked up. I'm just opposed to the thought line that he might provide any answers to this team moving forward. No matter what someone's stats say, I am not buying the fact that he was a 25 million dollar pitcher last year. I don't think his signing answers any of this team's questions about next year's rotation. A package of Buchholz and Swihart might get someone else to at least think about making a trade with us. If the Red Sox have 13 mil to pay for a part time player - great. Maybe he will help us. His career has certainly made me appreciate all of the great ones who go out there and play hurt, sick, and just plain beat up.

 

Well said young man.

 

Buchholtz is either a pussy and an idiot or just an idiot.

 

 

Those Fangraph WAR evaluations are f***ed in the head.

[Bellhorn04]

Well said young man.

 

Buchholtz is either a pussy and an idiot or just an idiot.

 

 

Those Fangraph WAR evaluations are f***ed in the head.

 

Personally, I think it's the baseball contracts that are f***ed in the head, and FanGraphs just reflects that reality.

[Spudboy]

Personally, I think it's the baseball contracts that are f***ed in the head, and FanGraphs just reflects that reality.

 

I agree.

[cp176]

Personally, I think it's the baseball contracts that are f***ed in the head, and FanGraphs just reflects that reality.

 

Agree here too.

[Kimmi]

i guess he was pretty good. So common logic says Price and a few others must be worth - what - 50 million per year?

 

Yes, Price was worth roughly $50 million to his team the past few years. That doesn't mean that teams are going to pay $50 mil a year for him in free agency, just like it doesn't mean teams are going to pay $25.3 mil a year for Clay. I am not in any way suggesting that a team would pay that much per year for either player.

 

What it does mean is that a one year contract for Clay at $13 mil is a very good value and a very good risk to take. $25 mil a year is also a good risk to take for Price, just not for 9 years.

[Kimmi]

Why resort to logic when we have Fangraphs?

 

Why resort to an intelligent response that adds to the baseball discussion or refutes my point when you can take a cheap shot?

 

Oh, because you don't have one.

[Kimmi]

Here's how crazy the money is: Brett Anderson and Colby Rasmus each received Qualifying Offers of 15.8 million.

 

Supposedly, the players' union is strongly encouraging players to decline the qualifying offers. No one has accepted a QO to date. I think owners are on to this, and are therefore going to extend more and more QOs to "borderline" players. The number of QOs given this year is up to 20 or 25 (I can't recall), when it's been 12 or 13 the past 2 years.

 

To me, it doesn't make any sense why the union would encourage these borderline players to not accept. It seems like all the benefit in those cases goes to the owners.

[Kimmi]

It is insane for sure. If you use the stats, the suggestion is that he might be getting that over 4 or 5 years. I doubt that happens. I am a believer in using all of the statistical data that you can use to help in the making of any decisions but I have to say that if the suggestion is that Buchholtz was worth 25 mil on the open market last year and Price was worth 50 mil, it would look to me that someone is using the the stats to tell a story that they want to hear.

 

As I said in my previous post to you, the suggestion is not that Clay should get $25 mil a year or that Price should get $50 mil a year. The suggestion is that based on the value the player provided to his team last season, a one year contract at $13 mil is a very good contract for Clay, and one that pretty much everyone thinks was a no brainer to pick up.

[Kimmi]

I am not opposed to thinking that Buchholz's contract should have been picked up. I'm just opposed to the thought line that he might provide any answers to this team moving forward. No matter what someone's stats say, I am not buying the fact that he was a 25 million dollar pitcher last year. I don't think his signing answers any of this team's questions about next year's rotation. A package of Buchholz and Swihart might get someone else to at least think about making a trade with us. If the Red Sox have 13 mil to pay for a part time player - great. Maybe he will help us. His career has certainly made me appreciate all of the great ones who go out there and play hurt, sick, and just plain beat up.

 

No one is suggesting that picking up Clay's option settles the team's pitching questions for next season, or even comes close. It's a start, and a very good one. If the team decides to keep Clay, he can be a very key piece in the rotation. The key in that case is to make sure there is a viable back up plan for Clay if/when he hits the DL. I believe the Sox have that back up plan in Owens.

 

If the team decides to trade Clay, who knows what piece the Sox can get back to help the team next season or beyond?

 

I understand everyone's frustration with Clay. I get frustrated with him as well. So much talent that seems to go unreached every year. But if you put aside personal frustration or dislike for Clay, it should be very easy to see that picking up his option was an easy decision to make.

[Kimmi]

Personally, I think it's the baseball contracts that are f***ed in the head, and FanGraphs just reflects that reality.

 

Bingo.

[SoxnCycles]

Bingo.

 

Know what else is f***ed up?

Reading comprehension skills on this board.

[a700hitter]

Why resort to an intelligent response that adds to the baseball discussion or refutes my point when you can take a cheap shot?

 

Oh, because you don't have one.

it was a satirical comment on the absurdity of the economics of the game, but of you want to be personally insulting, maybe you are not smart enough to realize that.

[Kimmi]

it was a satirical comment on the absurdity of the economics of the game, but of you want to be personally insulting, maybe you are not smart enough to realize that.

 

I'm not being personally insulting. My post was a satirical comment on the absurdity of satirical comments on a baseball forum.