2014 Offseason Thread

[BornToRun]

That they were willing to get to six years makes this a serious offer. One expects it can be bargained up - but the fact that they were willing to get to 6 years is at least an acknowledgment of the reality of his market.

 

I agree. I'm still optimistic that he's wearing our uniform come opening day, I just think that the total value will be closer to 140 than 120.

[a700hitter]

Lester being offered 6 years at 110-120MIL

 

Boston’s offer to Lester is in the $110-120MM range over six years, according to Cafardo (on Twitter). While that’s a notable step up in terms of their offer from last offseason, it’s still less than most expect Lester to accept.

 

That isn't an aggressive offer.

[seabeachfred]

I agree. I'm still optimistic that he's wearing our uniform come opening day, I just think that the total value will be closer to 140 than 120.

 

BT, that offer was better than the one they offered him last spring but way below the market value of what he is now worth on the open market. It means he will be pitching somewhere else next season and we'll hear excuses flying out of the air by our "esteemed" front office that we did the best we could while gobbling up a bunch of second rate pitchers who Cherington will tell us is low risk, high reward types. Right, and that's the way to get to the World Series....NOT!!!!!! With Lester gone we had better set our sites on Hamels and Cueto via trade and have some real money to sign the latter to an extension. Not looking too good right about now and that is very disheartening.

[User Name]

So many logical leaps. So, so many leaps.

 

If going up to 6 years isn't an aggressive offer, then i don't know what to tell some of the older gentlemen here. Did you expect them to put a gun to Lester's head and scream "SIGN THE CONTRACT *******". The word "negotiation" involves "negotiating".

[BornToRun]

So many logical leaps. So, so many leaps.

 

If going up to 6 years isn't an aggressive offer, then i don't know what to tell some of the older gentlemen here. Did you expect them to put a gun to Lester's head and scream "SIGN THE CONTRACT *******". The word "negotiation" involves "negotiating".

 

"You see, there was this big bandleader that wouldn't let Johnny Fontaine out from under his contract."

[SoxFanForsyth]

That isn't an aggressive offer.

 

Two things.

 

1. Negotiations don't start with your final offer.

2. WEEI is reporting that the offer is "complex"

 

That means there are probably things like options, opt outs, no trade clauses, bonus structures, etc.

 

What if the offer is 6/114 with a $3mm annual incentive if he throws 200 IP, which would take it up to 6/132? Then another $1mm in incentives if he makes the ASG, which would take it up to 6/138 with the incentives?

 

The problem is that all that is reported is the guaranteed dollars. But if he got the above offer with a no trade clause and a mutual option for a 7th year at $18mm, do you still think that's a bad deal? No, that's an excellent offer, particularly when it is your initial offer.

[a700hitter]

Two things.

 

1. Negotiations don't start with your final offer.

2. WEEI is reporting that the offer is "complex"

 

That means there are probably things like options, opt outs, no trade clauses, bonus structures, etc.

 

What if the offer is 6/114 with a $3mm annual incentive if he throws 200 IP, which would take it up to 6/132? Then another $1mm in incentives if he makes the ASG, which would take it up to 6/138 with the incentives?

 

The problem is that all that is reported is the guaranteed dollars. But if he got the above offer with a no trade clause and a mutual option for a 7th year at $18mm, do you still think that's a bad deal? No, that's an excellent offer, particularly when it is your initial offer.

I was reacting to a report that the Red Sox made an aggressive offer. I don't think their offer will be close to what it takes to sign him. I would have called it an I itial offer or an opening offer. It doesn't seem aggressive at all.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I was reacting to a report that the Red Sox made an aggressive offer. I don't think their offer will be close to what it takes to sign him. I would have called it an I itial offer or an opening offer. It doesn't seem aggressive at all.

 

You don't know what the offer even is. All that is being reported is that it's 6/110-120.

 

If it has incentives attached that get it up to 6/140, is that aggressive?

[InfernoOrangeSS]

They claimed a player with 20 HR power off the waiver wire. They don't even have to keep him or pay him if they don't want to. Its an excellent, excellent pickup that does absolutely nothing to hurt the team.

 

Get out of here with all those facts! sbf needs his ammo to continually harangue the FO.

[Palodios]

New report coming out that the Red Sox are moving on from Hamels. Apparently the 110 million + Xander +Mookie+ Owens deal that Amaro is asking for is too much. If I was a Philly fan, I would be calling for his head.

[BSN07]

New report coming out that the Red Sox are moving on from Hamels. Apparently the 110 million + Xander +Mookie+ Owens deal that Amaro is asking for is too much. If I was a Philly fan, I would be calling for his head.

 

He is insane lol Owens ok, but Xander and Mookie? I wouldn't trade either one in a package let alone both of them. Only thing that makes sense is Amaro was drunk texting.

[dupree]

New report coming out that the Red Sox are moving on from Hamels. Apparently the 110 million + Xander +Mookie+ Owens deal that Amaro is asking for is too much. If I was a Philly fan, I would be calling for his head.

Would be smarter to sign James Shields anyways as our #2 starter. Amaro will never move Hamels if the price is that high for a pitcher who has proved nothing outside the NL.

 

Would did you see that report Pal?

[SoxFanForsyth]

New report coming out that the Red Sox are moving on from Hamels. Apparently the 110 million + Xander +Mookie+ Owens deal that Amaro is asking for is too much. If I was a Philly fan, I would be calling for his head.

 

Link?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Keep hearing the Sox haven't yet made an offer to Sandoval but are prepping one.

 

I kind of wonder if they are waiting for Lester to make a decision. Let's say they are wanting to offer Sandoval 6/105. And you just offered Lester 6/110-120. Does that not get out and the Lester camp says 'wait a minute. If you're going to give Panda 6/105, we aren't settling for less than 6/150.'

 

They would be pretty right in their thinking. The gap in talent is pretty large and I can certainly see some leveraging from Lesters camp based on Pandas offer if it got out or he signed before Lester

[Palodios]

Link?

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/Red_Sox_may_be_moving_on_from_Cole_Hamels.html

[a700hitter]

You don't know what the offer even is. All that is being reported is that it's 6/110-120.

 

If it has incentives attached that get it up to 6/140, is that aggressive?

The reported offer was not aggressive IMO. Is it the actual offer? I don't know. I only commented on what was reported. I still don't think it sounds aggressive. Why are you arguing with me about the accuracy or completeness of the report. How the f*** would any of us know the truth. We can only discuss what is being reported. Do you think the reported offer is aggressive?

[BSN07]

Keep hearing the Sox haven't yet made an offer to Sandoval but are prepping one.

 

I kind of wonder if they are waiting for Lester to make a decision. Let's say they are wanting to offer Sandoval 6/105. And you just offered Lester 6/110-120. Does that not get out and the Lester camp says 'wait a minute. If you're going to give Panda 6/105, we aren't settling for less than 6/150.'

 

They would be pretty right in their thinking. The gap in talent is pretty large and I can certainly see some leveraging from Lesters camp based on Pandas offer if it got out or he signed before Lester

 

It could also be at the agents request that an offer not be made. He might be hoping all the publicity Panda's visit to Boston will make SF bump their offer and then he gets to shop it back to Boston. Who knows? We are only getting glances at what is really going on behind the curtain.

[BSN07]

The reported offer was not aggressive IMO. Is it the actual offer? I don't know. I only commented on what was reported. I still don't think it sounds aggressive. Why are you arguing with me about the accuracy or completeness of the report. How the f*** would any of us know the truth. We can only discuss what is being reported. Do you think the reported offer is aggressive?

 

It's 40-50M more then what they offered him a few months ago. In that context it could be deemed "aggressive".

[dupree]

I wonder if Boston is one of the 3 teams in on Dioner Navarro to fill the left handed bat at cather. His contract is 5mil foe next year and then is a FA which would clear the way for Blake Swihart. I hope they make this minor move to fill the LHH void and be a good platoon for Vazquez. 10+ hr power and decent defense I see it as a win. With Russell Martin in Toronto he may be able to be had since he is wanted traded for a low - mid level prospect

[SoxFanForsyth]

The reported offer was not aggressive IMO. Is it the actual offer? I don't know. I only commented on what was reported. I still don't think it sounds aggressive. Why are you arguing with me about the accuracy or completeness of the report. How the f*** would any of us know the truth. We can only discuss what is being reported. Do you think the reported offer is aggressive?

 

I'm arguing because you pick 1 reported item (6/110-120) and completely disregard the "The offer was complex" report. With that report, it's obvious that the 6/110-120 isn't telling the whole story at all. So why dog the Sox for it?

 

I'm just not in the business of hounding the Sox until we know the full details.

[a700hitter]

I'm arguing because you pick 1 reported item (6/110-120) and completely disregard the "The offer was complex" report. With that report, it's obvious that the 6/110-120 isn't telling the whole story at all. So why dog the Sox for it?

 

I'm just not in the business of hounding the Sox until we know the full details.

I didn't pick anything. Someone posted it in the string so I commented on it. I also didn't ignore anything. I wasn't aware of the other report so I couldn't have ignored it. BTW, who do you think I was criticizing when I disagreed that the reported offer was aggressive?

[SoxFanForsyth]

I didn't pick anything. Someone posted it in the string so I commented on it. I also didn't ignore anything. I wasn't aware of the other report so I couldn't have ignored it. BTW, who do you think I was criticizing when I disagreed that the reported offer was aggressive?

 

It would sound like you're criticizing the Sox FO for not offering enough. But if you didn't know about the other report, then that's fine. 6/110 would not be an aggressive offer. But 6/110 with some complexity? Absolutely aggressive.

[a700hitter]

It would sound like you're criticizing the Sox FO for not offering enough. But if you didn't know about the other report, then that's fine. 6/110 would not be an aggressive offer. But 6/110 with some complexity? Absolutely aggressive.

I was criticizing/disagreeing with the reporter's characterization of the offer. I still don't think the reported offer is agressive, and apparently neither do you.

 

My criticism of the FO is that they gave him an offer to shop to all the other teams. I have seen no other report that he got any offer before ours. I think that it is foolish to be the first offer.

[Spudboy]

No one really knows what is going on. All that we have to go on is unsubstantiated speculation. No direct quotes from the people involved.

 

If the Sox offered 6/110-120 that is only what they should of offered after the 2013 season. It is not aggressive when taken in light of the current market conditions. Who knows what the complexities are? Maybe they involve only things that would bring the total value of the deal up from 6/110 to 6/120?

 

I think that the Sox have missed the boat again on this. If they wanted to make sure that Lester signed they would have made a firm offer for 6/130 -6/140. I have a feeling that would have gotten it done. Now that Lester is out talking with other teams it seems that the Sox have lost the opportunity to land Lester.

 

But who knows?

 

I don't believe that Lester will be conceding to a home town discount anymore. Why should he? The Sox have taken their "best shot". Now Lester is in the driver's seat again.

 

To hell with 6/100 for Sandoval.

[a700hitter]

No one really knows what is going on. All that we have to go on is unsubstantiated speculation. No direct quotes from the people involved.

 

If the Sox offered 6/110-120 that is only what they should of offered after the 2013 season. It is not aggressive when taken in light of the current market conditions. Who knows what the complexities are? Maybe they involve only things that would bring the total value of the deal up from 6/110 to 6/120?

 

I think that the Sox have missed the boat again on this. If they wanted to make sure that Lester signed they would have made a firm offer for 6/130 -6/140. I have a feeling that would have gotten it done. Now that Lester is out talking with other teams it seems that the Sox have lost the opportunity to land Lester.

 

But who knows?

 

I don't believe that Lester will be conceding to a home town discount anymore. Why should he? The Sox have taken their "best shot". Now Lester is in the driver's seat again.

 

To hell with 6/100 for Sandoval.

In the end if they get him, we don't care how they got it done, but if they don't get it done, my verdict will be that they screwed the pooch on this going back to last spring training and their ridiculous $70 million offer.

[Spudboy]

In the end if they get him, we don't care how they got it done, but if they don't get it done, my verdict will be that they screwed the pooch on this going back to last spring training and their ridiculous $70 million offer.

 

Of course I agree. This entire situation should never have happened. The Sox did misplay this last spring. Lester is not The King but he is without question the best pitcher the Sox have had at the front end since Pedro. They felched this big time. I'll laugh if Theo signs him.

[Spudboy]

By the way, does anyone here believe that the Cards and Braves are serious players for Lester?

 

Yes, I realize that Lester makes the Atlanta area his off-season home.

 

Do either of these teams have the budget and balls to make the kind of deal it will take to get Lester?

 

I don't thinks so. But I would not discount the probability of Theo and the Cubs dropping a big offer on Lester.

 

And Fred, Lester could still end up in pinstripes. However, If the Yankees are going to sign a big name pitcher this off season, I bet it is Sherzer. Or maybe even both of them! Hahahahaha!!

Edited November 20, 2014 by Spudboy

[a700hitter]

If they sign Sandova, they should include a paid nutritionist/chef in the contract. It would be worth the investment as this guy has a huge problem keeping his weight at healthy levels.

[a700hitter]

By the way, does anyone here believe that the Cards and Braves are serious players for Lester?

 

Yes, I realize that Lester makes the Atlanta area his off-season home.

 

Do either of these teams have the budget and balls to make the kind of deal it will take to get Lester?

 

I don't thinks so. But I would not discount the probability of Theo and the Cubs dropping a big offer on Lester.

Theo has a hard time letting go when it comes to guys he signed. I have no doubt that Theo wants him, and he has the budget to get him.

[SoxFanForsyth]

By the way, does anyone here believe that the Cards and Braves are serious players for Lester?

 

Yes, I realize that Lester makes the Atlanta area his off-season home.

 

Do either of these teams have the budget and balls to make the kind of deal it will take to get Lester?

 

I don't thinks so. But I would not discount the probability of Theo and the Cubs dropping a big offer on Lester.

 

And Fred, Lester could still end up in pinstripes. However, If the Yankees are going to sign a big name pitcher this off season, I bet it is Sherzer. Or maybe even both of them! Hahahahaha!!

 

No chance on the Braves. Cardinals interesting me but I don't see them giving that contract, they never have for a non-Cardinal (ie an extension). Cubs I am hearing are maybe going to have a cap on their spending for Lester, and really dive into the market next year (Price, Cueto, Shark, Zimmerman lead the pack).

 

As a side note to that, the Sox have a 13mm club option with Buchholz for the 2016 season. Would love to see the Sox use that money along with Vic, Napoli, Mujica, etc to go after one of those big name guys to go w Lester.