Should we be making a reasonable competitive offer to Ells?

[sheffieldcelt]

Most sox fans I speak to say its over and he'll go with ready made replacement in JBJ, in the understanding his next deal will be a poor one for the the club paying him

 

I'm not to sure and think we should be making an effort to keep ellsbury at Fenway

 

How do you guys think we will play this one?

[redsoxrules]

At the moment he's not worth much as he hasen't been that great since his breakout season.

[sheffieldcelt]

At the moment he's not worth much as he hasen't been that great since his breakout season.

 

In no expert with the numbers and stats but I think he's playing great, getting on and stealing bases, maybe not showing the power bat he seemed to have in 2011

 

Big contract would also be risk given his time on treatment table but a risk worth taking in my opinion

[BornToRun]

I would be willing to keep him but I'm also perfectly fine letting him walk too. If he goes looking for the 20 mil per year we all predicted he would command after 2011 then he can go elsewhere. I doubt he repeats 2011.

[italstallianion]

It depends on what he wants, what the Sox have, what other teams offer, who else is available, and what he does for the rest of the year. (And what other internal options do this year)

 

And probably a few other things too. That said, if given a yes/no choice I'd more likely want to have him back.

[BSN07]

If he will take a similar deal to Victorino's or Bourn then I'd be ok with them bringing him back. If it's BJ Upton money + then no thanks.

[VA Sox Fan]

It's always a flip of the coin when Boras is involved.

[italstallianion]

A two headed coin flip imo.

[Behindenemylines]

I think Boras will take what every is the most money offered. If you look at $panks Cano and him changing agents by dumping Boras, it makes you think there is a better chance now that he remains in New York. I think Cano knew that the $pankee offer would not be the highest and he wants to stay in NY. As long as Boras is Ellsbury's agent I think he walks after the season.

[reYoukilis]

I think Boras will take what every is the most money offered. If you look at $panks Cano and him changing agents by dumping Boras, it makes you think there is a better chance now that he remains in New York. I think Cano knew that the $pankee offer would not be the highest and he wants to stay in NY. As long as Boras is Ellsbury's agent I think he walks after the season.

Well then Ellsbury should do the same thing as Cano because if it were me, I would want to stay on the Red Sox. You got fans in the stands, a seemingly good system in place, etc.

[redsoxrules]

In no expert with the numbers and stats but I think he's playing great, getting on and stealing bases, maybe not showing the power bat he seemed to have in 2011

 

Big contract would also be risk given his time on treatment table but a risk worth taking in my opinion

 

You don't give a player a huge contract based on one break out season.

As I've mentioned many times, wait till the season is over to see what numbers he puts up. The only way he's getting a big pay day is if he has another big season like 2011.

 

His OBP was 313 last year and currently at 338 so far this year. Now I know its only 1 month in but as I mentioned, wait till the season is over.

[Dojji]

I'm not paying him based on 2011, that said, if he wants a reasonable deal in the 11-15M AAV range, I'd consider it.

[Palodios]

Dan Shaughnessy says he will shave his head if Ellsbury is still here next year.

 

Boob, sign him!

[sheffieldcelt]

Well then Ellsbury should do the same thing as Cano because if it were me, I would want to stay on the Red Sox. You got fans in the stands, a seemingly good system in place, etc.

 

You think he owes us a little loyalty ? Well paid as looked after while spending a lot of time out injured.........

 

 

I am nieve but I still don't understand the free agent mentality of players

 

What the diff earning $120m or $100m? Obvious answer is $20m but what diff will that make to your life? None in my opinion

 

Players should be considering playing where they are happy/family settled etc rather than moving to LA (hamilton/pujols etc) cos there some extra money that make no diff to your life

 

 

I think Ells owes the sox at least a friendly negotiation

[User Name]

For pllayers it's about respect, and of course, the money itself.

 

You are supremely naive if you can't see why someone would want an extra 20 million.

[italstallianion]

I agree with both sides. I mean I totally understand why a player would want an extra $20 million, but I think it's a valid point to say "really? $120M vs. $100M is really going to make your life that much better?"

 

I personally think if you can't live off of the major league minimum then you have serious problems.

[Dojji]

I agree with both sides. I mean I totally understand why a player would want an extra $20 million, but I think it's a valid point to say "really? $120M vs. $100M is really going to make your life that much better?"

 

I personally think if you can't live off of the major league minimum then you have serious problems.

 

Perhaps so, but I can see pro athletes wanting the big payday for a couple reasons.

 

First their bodies could give out on them at any time. If you have maybe 20 years of earning time at the absolute most, and have a long post-professional sports career to plan for financially, getting as much as you can when you can get it is necessary.

 

Second, the owners are going to get their cut whatever happens, but they get that cut because they have players who make the team and the sport watchable. A cut of that revenue going to the players is entirely appropriate. Whether you or I could do fine on less money than is going to the players is immaterial -- the product nets X amount of revenue, and it's fair that Y% of it goes to the players. Frankly more of it should go to the yutes than actually goes to them -- no other sport in the big 4 inhibits its rookies' earning power more than baseball.

 

That's besides the rather obvious fact that most of the salary rules in place are about limiting a player's earning power to begin with. The players get stepped on quite a bit, even with the "millionaires fighting billionaires" dynamic going on.

[User Name]

So if you got two job offers, one paying 100 K a year and the other paying 120 doing the exact same thing, you wouldn't take the bigger offer because "20 k doesn't make your life that much better?". That is failthought.

 

First off, it's not necessarily the salary, but the prestige and respect that comes with making money. And there's the fact that it's a $20 million dollar difference. Are you people serious?

 

Sometimes a player will bypass the extra money if they really like a place (Lee, Teixeira) but Ellsbury owes nothing to the Boston Red Sox. If he really likes the place, he'll find a way to stay, but let's not pretend that in most circumstances you wouldn't take the paycheck that's twenty million bigger too.

[User Name]

Perhaps so, but I can see pro athletes wanting the big payday for a couple reasons.

 

First their bodies could give out on them at any time. If you have maybe 20 years of earning time at the absolute most, and have a long post-professional sports career to plan for financially, getting as much as you can when you can get it is necessary.

 

Second, the owners are going to get their cut whatever happens, but they get that cut because they have players who make the team and the sport watchable. A cut of that revenue going to the players is entirely appropriate. Whether you or I could do fine on less money than is going to the players is immaterial -- the product nets X amount of revenue, and it's fair that Y% of it goes to the players. Frankly more of it should go to the yutes than actually goes to them -- no other sport in the big 4 inhibits its rookies' earning power more than baseball.

 

That's besides the rather obvious fact that most of the salary rules in place are about limiting a player's earning power to begin with. The players get stepped on quite a bit, even with the "millionaires fighting billionaires" dynamic going on.

 

Specially since they spend the first six years of their career making, on average, below what the open market would pay them, and you never know when injury/ineffectiveness may hamper a players ability to make money after the big payday.

[Dojji]

You know I did a bad job explaining the point I had in my head, when someone else had to come along after my post saying exactly what I'd tried to say, in less than 10% of the total words.

[italstallianion]

So if you got two job offers, one paying 100 K a year and the other paying 120 doing the exact same thing, you wouldn't take the bigger offer because "20 k doesn't make your life that much better?". That is failthought.

 

First off, it's not necessarily the salary, but the prestige and respect that comes with making money. And there's the fact that it's a $20 million dollar difference. Are you people serious?

 

Sometimes a player will bypass the extra money if they really like a place (Lee, Teixeira) but Ellsbury owes nothing to the Boston Red Sox. If he really likes the place, he'll find a way to stay, but let's not pretend that in most circumstances you wouldn't take the paycheck that's twenty million bigger too.

 

 

It depends. In your example (comparing it to baseball) one would likely require me to move. And if I have a family, I'm likely not going to move just to get an extra 20K. Plus there are other factors like lockerroom, quality of the team, fanbase etc.

 

I understand what you're saying. And that's why I'm not going to blame players for taking the extra money. (Let the record know I'm not blaming them) However, I think it's ok to say that 100M or so should be more than enough to live your life and that one shouldn't ever bitch about money when they are getting 100M+

 

I feel that your perception of the point I'm trying to make, and the point in my head I'm trying to make are different. Again I find myself in the middle on this.

[italstallianion]

Having said all that I think we all deserve the right to laugh at athletes that buy 6-7 figure cars and are then bankrupt a few years after retiring.

[User Name]

It depends. In your example (comparing it to baseball) one would likely require me to move. And if I have a family, I'm likely not going to move just to get an extra 20K. Plus there are other factors like lockerroom, quality of the team, fanbase etc.

 

I understand what you're saying. And that's why I'm not going to blame players for taking the extra money. (Let the record know I'm not blaming them) However, I think it's ok to say that 100M or so should be more than enough to live your life and that one shouldn't ever bitch about money when they are getting 100M+

 

I feel that your perception of the point I'm trying to make, and the point in my head I'm trying to make are different. Again I find myself in the middle on this.

 

Let me guess: You're too lazy to take a stand on either side of the argument?

[italstallianion]

Haha no. I just don't understand why the conversation is still going on when the 3 of us agree. I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you. But your posts are reading like you're trying to argue with me.

[User Name]

It was a legitimate question, and i actually thought you were going to respond with a resounding "yes".

[italstallianion]

No. In this case I see both sides, being your comment and sheffieldcelt's comment. Me being too lazy would be me not caring about the argument at all and saying "you're both right" to get you both to shut up. In that case I wouldn't have posted as many times as I have.

[BSN07]

It's not a black or white answer. There are many variables. Where do you currently play/live(taxes, cost of living). If I live in Texas and get an offer in NY or Toronto, that 20% increase in pay doesn't really amount to much. Now is it's something like the Sox offered 100M(just for math sake) and Seattle offered 150M? Then I could say the difference is large enough to take the risk of leaving for a new company/team.

 

The company/team is also a consideration, am I leaving Nike to go work for Dexter? Or am I leaving Dexter and going to Nike? Am I actually happy where I am or am I looking for my first chance out?

 

There is a bunch of stuff that is taken into consideration that only the athlete and agent are privy to. It's really a tough subject for us to judge from the outside.

[rjortiz]

I'm not sure I would invest five years on a player whose value primarily lies in his baserunning and fielding skills.

[redsoxrules]

I'm not sure I would invest five years on a player whose value primarily lies in his baserunning and fielding skills.

 

Exactly

[Spitball]

So if you got two job offers, one paying 100 K a year and the other paying 120 doing the exact same thing, you wouldn't take the bigger offer because "20 k doesn't make your life that much better?". That is failthought.

 

I don't get this. 20k and 20 million are not the same thing. If I am in the 100 to 120k range, I do not understand the 20 million range. For most of us, 20 million is an abstract number that we can't truly understand. I make far, far, far less and am pretty damn comfortable and happy.

 

First off, it's not necessarily the salary, but the prestige and respect that comes with making money.

 

In the world of athletics, performance brings prestige and respect far more than making money. Edgar Renteria signed for $40 million for four years...and became fat, made 30 errors, and hit about league average for a middle infielder in his one season for the Red Sox. It is simply not true that "...the prestige and respect" comes with making money. It is really about performance.

 

And there's the fact that it's a $20 million dollar difference. Are you people serious?

 

Are you serious? What is there in life that I want or need that I can't buy for less than $1 million. Most boys grow up with the desire to play major league baseball and would be willing to play for free...

 

Sometimes a player will bypass the extra money if they really like a place (Lee, Teixeira) but Ellsbury owes nothing to the Boston Red Sox.

 

I think you should have left this part out. You have weakened your argument.

 

If he really likes the place, he'll find a way to stay, but let's not pretend that in most circumstances you wouldn't take the paycheck that's twenty million bigger too.

 

Twenty million is a totally abstract number to most of us. What could I do with twenty million that I could not do with ten million? And don't tell me I would have prestige. Chone Figgins makes millions but does not have prestige.