"Greatest Red Sox of All Time"

[IRON HORSE]

I just thought that I would pose this question as to who is the greatest red sox player of all time? I know this might be a very vague and complex, but with our franchise being so rich I decided to ask everyone this question.

[Dojji]

Ted. Full stop. You will not see any significant disagreement with this sentiment.

 

A better question is who the second greatest guy is.

[Spitball]

Ted. Full stop. You will not see any significant disagreement with this sentiment.

 

A better question is who the second greatest guy is.

 

Right! I'd have to go with Captain Carl Yastrzemski as number 2 with apologies to Pedro Martinez.

[who]

How about by position? If you are only going with 1 player, its hard to go further than #9.

[mvp 78]

Ted

Pedro

Yaz

Roger

Rice

[Lucienbel]

Top three for me, in this order would be:

 

1.) Ted Williams

2.) Pedro Martinez

3.) Carl Yastrzemski

 

At first I was sort of iffy on where to put Yaz and Pedro, but every time I look at Pedro's numbers and the fact he put them up in the steroid era I'm amazed. There are times I don't think he gets enough credit for that still.

[Dojji]

Yeah, pretty hard not to put Pedro right up there as #2.

 

Incidentally, where do you all put Clemens? By all accounts no one ever accused him of doping during his Red Sox days. He met that corrupt trainer in Toronto. And despite the flaws that saw him never take his team over the top, he was one heck of a pitcher, even if you end his career at about 1996 when it probably should have ended.

[cbbosox]

While undoubtedly 1978 was one of the greatest years ever by a Red Sox

i think for their entire careers Evans was a little better than Rice & may rival Yaz.

 

Several gold gloves and arguably the best hitter numbers wise in the 80's.

 

Don't get me wrong i like Yaz and Rice but i think people tend to get caught up

in the one unbelievable season each had (yaz 67 Rice 78)

 

so for me

Williams

Pedro

Clemens

Manny(0 titles in over 90 years without Manny & Papi that has to count for something)

Ortiz

Evans

Yaz

Rice

[Dojji]

I think modern audiences would have appreciated Evans more for what he was. He was an OBP machine along with being a fairly decent power hitter. If people appreciated OBP the same way 30 years ago that they do today Evans is probably considered to be on track for the Hall.

[a700hitter]

Yaz was the most significant player in the history of the Red Sox. Williams ws the best hitter of all time, but Yaz did everything else much better. Where Yaz vaults to the top of the pack for me is that the 1967 team revived the moribund franchise that was considering leaving Fenway and Boston. The trajectory of the franchise changed with that season, and that was the season of Yaz. Beyond 1967 the Red Sox remained as a winning and competitive franchise with teams built around Yaz. After 1967, the Sox failed to field a winning team only once for the rest of Yaz career -- in 1983 (Yaz's last season). From 1967 to 1982, they finished above .500 for 16 straight seasons. That is the longest streak in the history of the franchise.

 

Yaz was the leader on most of those teams. He is the player who made the most significant contributions to the Red Sox in the era that turned the Red Sox franchise around and made them not just relevant again, but beloved. The Red Sox need to commission a statue in his honor at Fenway, because I truly believe that Fenway might have been long gone had it not been for Yaz. For that matter, the Red Sox might not be in Boston either. I'd like to this done while he is still around for the dedication.

[cbbosox]

While i don't disagree with what 700hitter said about Yaz

to me most significant and greatest are not the same thing.

 

For a team like the Orioles for example

Cal Ripken probably the most significant player. But i don't think was as great

a player as Robinson,Palmer or Murray.

 

While this was not the original question i will say this

when most people think Red Sox- Williams & Yaz are the first names that probably come to peoples mind.

[Whiteandnerdy42]

Yeah, undoubtedly Ted; probably Yaz and Pedro finishing a distant second and third.

[a700hitter]

While i don't disagree with what 700hitter said about Yaz

to me most significant and greatest are not the same thing.

 

For a team like the Orioles for example

Cal Ripken probably the most significant player. But i don't think was as great

a player as Robinson,Palmer or Murray.

 

While this was not the original question i will say this

when most people think Red Sox- Williams & Yaz are the first names that probably come to peoples mind.

I would not underestimate the greatness of Yaz. Don't forget that his prime years were in a pitching dominated era with a higher mound -- that got lowered in 1969 (Yaz's 9th season). For a power hitter, he rarely struck out. If you compared him to the other power hitters from his era, his k's per 162 games and per HR were pretty phenomenal. Pedro is the pitching equivalent of Yaz in that he dominated in a hitting dominate era while Yaz did so in a pitching dominated era.

[Dojji]

Yaz was the most significant player in the history of the Red Sox.

 

No he was not. There have been players before Yaz, and players after Yaz, who had bigger impacts in their time.

 

Yaz put the team on his back in 67, and is one of the team's great cultural icons, but that doesn't put him ahead of Williams. Williams was just too dominant for just too long.

 

Honestly I'd seriously consider putting Pedro Martinez ahead of Yaz, because he was as dominant as Yaz at their respective peaks, in as pitcher-unfriendly an era as Yaz's era was hitter unfriendly, AND he got us all the way to the promised land.

 

Which Yaz did not.

[jacksonianmarch]

The best player to ever wear the sox uniform was Babe Ruth. The greatest Red Sox player as in the guy who put up the best numbers wearing a Red Sox uniform is Ted Williams with no questions asked

[a700hitter]

No he was not. There have been players before Yaz, and players after Yaz, who had bigger impacts in their time.

 

Yaz put the team on his back in 67, and is one of the team's great cultural icons, but that doesn't put him ahead of Williams. Williams was just too dominant for just too long.

 

Honestly I'd seriously consider putting Pedro Martinez ahead of Yaz, because he was as dominant as Yaz at their respective peaks, in as pitcher-unfriendly an era as Yaz's era was hitter unfriendly, AND he got us all the way to the promised land.

 

Which Yaz did not.

You've missed the point. The importance of Yaz and 1967 was beyond statistics and pennants. Maybe you weren't alive to experience Boston baseball in the early 60's. The importance was that he was the centerpiece of a franchise saving team that revived and saved the franchise. Don't take my word for it. Read Bob Ryan's writings about it. He has always said that in Boston Baseball 1967 was the clear delineation. Many other long time writers have placed the same importance on that year, including Gammons. Baseball in Boston was reborn that year. That's why it was so important. Also, it wasn't a 1 year wonder. While nothing could match 1967, they put out winning teams (16 straight seasons) and many strongly competitive teams including 2 World Series teams.

 

It may be argued that some Sox players were greater players than Yaz (not too many were), but IMO, none had more of a positive impact on the franchise. If you didn't see or experience Boston baseball prior to 1967 and witness the change, you are speaking from a position of ignorance.

[Spitball]

No he was not. There have been players before Yaz, and players after Yaz, who had bigger impacts in their time.

 

Yaz put the team on his back in 67, and is one of the team's great cultural icons, but that doesn't put him ahead of Williams. Williams was just too dominant for just too long.

 

Honestly I'd seriously consider putting Pedro Martinez ahead of Yaz, because he was as dominant as Yaz at their respective peaks, in as pitcher-unfriendly an era as Yaz's era was hitter unfriendly, AND he got us all the way to the promised land.

 

Which Yaz did not.

 

As much as I love Carl Yastrzemski, you are right. Ted Williams is possibly the greatest hitter in the history of baseball. Yaz had a great year in 1967, but for his career, he was not really close to the greatness of Ted Williams. Williams' career OPS of 1.116 is better than any season recorded by Yastrzemski.

 

And before anyone tries to tell me about the greatness of 1967, forget it. I was there. I remember that year as my favorite baseball year ever. I remember Yaz's magic. I also remember the great year by Jim Lonborg. I remember great pitching performances by journeymen pitchers Gary Bell, Lee Stange, and Jose Santiago. Tony Conigliaro, George Scott, and other components made for a great team that was tied together by manager Dick Williams. Yaz was great that year but he didn't do it alone.

[a700hitter]

As much as I love Carl Yastrzemski, you are right. Ted Williams is possibly the greatest hitter in the history of baseball. Yaz had a great year in 1967, but for his career, he was not really close to the greatness of Ted Williams. Williams' career OPS of 1.116 is better than any season recorded by Yastrzemski.

 

And before anyone tries to tell me about the greatness of 1967, forget it. I was there. I remember that year as my favorite baseball year ever. I remember Yaz's magic. I also remember the great year by Jim Lonborg. I remember great pitching performances by journeymen pitchers Gary Bell, Lee Stange, and Jose Santiago. Tony Conigliaro, George Scott, and other components made for a great team that was tied together by manager Dick Williams. Yaz was great that year but he didn't do it alone.

I'll have to go with the recollections of the players who played with Yaz that year. I believe that George Scott called it the greatest year by any player in any year. Reggie Smith said:

 

Even when comparing him to today's players, I have yet to see a season like the one he had,'' says Smith. That whole year was dream-like, anyway, considering what we did and what we accomplished.

Manager Dick Williams also maintained that he "never saw a player have a season like that." He said that Yaz was the perfect player that year. Williams played for the Brooklyn Dodgers in the 1950's and saw his share of greats as a player and manager. These guys maintained this opinion years after 67 was a distant memory. Also, Dick Williams and Yaz were far from personal friends or friendly acquaintances, yet Williams always maintained his high praise of Yaz's 1967 season. After Tony C went down that year, Yaz put that team on his shoulders and carried them to the finish.

 

I'll also have to go with Bob Ryan and Peter Gammons with regard to the importance of 1967 in the history of the Red Sox franchise.

[Spitball]

It is a waste of time to discuss anything with you, a700, but I will admit Yastrzemski's 1967 year was magical. I will also admit that he is my favorite Red Sox player of all-time because I witnessed his entire career.

 

But, he had one really great season and several really good ones. Ted Williams had a really great career and is easily the greatest player in Red Sox history.

[a700hitter]

It is a waste of time to discuss anything with you, a700, but I will admit Yastrzemski's 1967 year was magical. I will also admit that he is my favorite Red Sox player of all-time because I witnessed his entire career.

 

But, he had one really great season and several really good ones. Ted Williams had a really great career and is easily the greatest player in Red Sox history.

I already admitted that other Red Sox players were greater than Yaz, and I agree that Teddy Ballgame was the best of all. Jimmy Fox would be another better than Yaz. My point is that the impact of Yaz and 1967 on the franchise. That season led by Yaz changed the trajectory of the fortunes of the Red Sox helping turn it into one of the greatest franchises in sports for almost the last 45 years. I never said that Yaz was the greatest RedSox player, nevermind greater than Williams, so I don't know where our disagreement is.

[VA Sox Fan]

It is a waste of time to discuss anything with you, a700, but I will admit Yastrzemski's 1967 year was magical. I will also admit that he is my favorite Red Sox player of all-time because I witnessed his entire career.

 

But, he had one really great season and several really good ones. Ted Williams had a really great career and is easily the greatest player in Red Sox history.

 

Yaz is my all time favorite too. But imagine what Ted Williams career would have been if he didn't lose those seasons during WWII and the Korean War. Insane!

[cbbosox]

Maybe someone should start a new thread

Greatest single season by a red sox ever?

 

Yaz 67

williams 41

&

Pedro 00

would be 3 that come to mind

[a700hitter]

Yaz is my all time favorite too. But imagine what Ted Williams career would have been if he didn't lose those seasons during WWII and the Korean War. Insane!

The three great icons of the 40's and 50's were Williams, DiMaggioand Musial. I have a bat signed by Williams and a ball signed by Musial. Stuff signed by DiMaggio is real pricy, but eventually I will get something signed by him.

[Spitball]

Yaz is my all time favorite too. But imagine what Ted Williams career would have been if he didn't lose those seasons during WWII and the Korean War. Insane!

 

It is admirable that he fought for his country, but it is too bad he lost he lost so much playing time in his prime. For one thing, he could have approached 700 homeruns.

 

Maybe someone should start a new thread

Greatest single season by a red sox ever?

 

Yaz 67

williams 41

&

Pedro 00

would be 3 that come to mind

 

Good idea. If you don't start one, I may do it later today.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Good idea. If you don't start one, I may do it later today.

 

Please do. It'd be a very interesting topic and will bring up good discussion. We can temporarily forget about the trash we have on our team now

[cbbosox]

Please do. It'd be a very interesting topic and will bring up good discussion. We can temporarily forget about the trash we have on our team now

 

You mean your are not counting the days before we get to see

Stephan Drew and Johnny Gomes take the field?

 

 

(i just started the thread )

[SoxSport]

Greatest player?

 

I would say Williams--for being probably the greatest hitter of all time. Plus he played his whole career in Boston.

 

Babe Ruth would have to be there, too. he was a great pitcher as a Red Sox, and also led the majors in HRs a couple of times playing RF part-time as a Red Sox. Ruth was already recognized as the best player in baseball when that NY carpetbagger, Frazee, sold him to the Yankees--presumably to build up the floundering NY franchise. The Babe was the best all-around Red Sox player.

 

I would put Yaz number 3. He was not a consistently great hitter in his career, padded his stats with the DH, but was a great defensive left fielder. The best I've seen at Fenway. He was a big game player.

 

Pedro was certainly the greatest pitcher--at least the best I've seen. There were several years in Boston when he was the best pitcher on the planet. He is right there in the top 5.

[jung]

Greatest player has to be Williams in my opinion although I have already voted Yaz 67 for greatest single season.

[IRON HORSE]

Where would Jason Varitek fit in? He showed great leadership qualities during his tenure with us and would make a great manager some day. Also, how about Tim Wakefield?

[Dojji]

Where would Jason Varitek fit in? He showed great leadership qualities during his tenure with us and would make a great manager some day.

 

Tek is our second best catcher ever. But not nearly one of the all-time greatest Red Sox. He will be remembered as one of the memorable players of his era on this team, the same way, say, Mo Vaughn is, or Jimmy Foxx, or Luis Tiant, and no one put them on this list.

 

Outside Pedro himself, if there's anyone we've had in the "oughts" who has a fair chance to get onto that list, it's probably Big Papi, and that's mostly for what he meant in 04 and 07.

 

Also, how about Tim Wakefield?

 

Already forgotten for the most part.