Jonny Gome

[NativeBostonian]

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8660831&city=boston

Red Sox have signed OF Gomes to a two year deal. Seems like a utility guy to me. Doesn't have much power. But the power he does have is to left field. So, Fenway might help his numbers.

[Dojji]

Johnny Gomes doesn't have much power? In what universe? The man can hit a ball a long, long way. His deal has always been consistency.

 

Since we have holes at both corners now, Gomes is a solid potential piece to the puzzle. Could be a good replacement for Cody Ross.

[NativeBostonian]

Johnny Gomes doesn't have much power? In what universe? The man can hit a ball a long, long way. His deal has always been consistency.

 

Since we have holes at both corners now, Gomes is a solid potential piece to the puzzle. Could be a good replacement for Cody Ross.

That's what I've been hearing. I haven't seen him play much since he left Tampa. I didn't really know if it was true.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is a very good, under the radar move. I have a feeling you will be seeing him platoon with Kalish to start the yr to get the kid some confidence and get Gomes comfortable in his new digs

[jung]

The piece says 2/$10. Not bad their BC. Although I think 2/$12 would have been a noticeably overpay so BC pretty much got it right I think. 2/$10 might be a slight overpay but still not bad and surely not what Cody Ross was looking to get.

[SCM33]

Gomes has a TON of power.

 

If this is the move instead of signing Ross however, I hate it.

 

If he is the replacement, we somehow managed to get worse than we were.

[Emmz]

Yeah, Gomez can crush the ball. multiple time 20-hr hitter, but Ross is ideal as far as fenway power goes.

[RedSoxNC84]

Any chance we get Gomes in left and Ross in right?

[BSN07]

Gomes has a TON of power.

 

If this is the move instead of signing Ross however, I hate it.

 

If he is the replacement, we somehow managed to get worse than we were.

 

I think you have to look at it like Gomes+Kalish or Gomes +Nava as the replacement for Ross.

 

I'd like to see Ross back with the club, but don't fault them at all for not going to three years. Overall I like the move.

[Elktonnick]

When the Red Spx go after a guy with Fenway power and poor defensive skills it reminds me of the awful Red Sox teams of the early sixties. Gomes can hit but he sucks defensively. Remember "Dr Strangeglove" or Stonefingers" Dick Stuart anyone?

[Palodios]

Player A

 

Age 32

Split versus righties .223 /.307 / .425 /.732

Split versus lefties .284 / .382/ .512 /.894

Career .244/ .334 / .455 /.790

 

Player B

 

Age 32

Split versus righties .253/ .312/ .415 /.727

Split versus lefties 284/ .353/ .575/ .928

Career .262/.324/.460/.783

 

 

These guys are so similar, they started looking like the same player to me. Why pay 3/24 for Ross when you get almost exactly the same production from Gomes? Especially when the money saved may go to elite starting pitching, or Josh Hamilton.

[User Name]

The problem here is the value that can be placed on defense. Ross can play both OF corners capably, while Gomes is awful at anything that involves using a glove, probably even cooking or cleaning his bathroom. The difference in overall production is much bigger because of it.

[BSN07]

The problem here is the value that can be placed on defense. Ross can play both OF corners capably, while Gomes is awful at anything that involves using a glove, probably even cooking or cleaning his bathroom. The difference in overall production is much bigger because of it.

 

If he is planned to play the OF as much as Ross then ya I'm worried too. But I don't think that's gonna be the case. He's gonna be starting in LF against LHP. Maybe 1/2 of the games? He will be replaced later in games for defensive purposes. So realistically he's in the field for less then half of the available playing time. He's probably going to have a negative value in LF regardless. Hopefully in the limited time he's out there he can make routine plays and avoid catastrophic mistakes. We will have to wait and see.

[Behindenemylines]

Because of injuries last season I think Ross played more then the Sox would have liked (I think they wanted more a platoon role for him). Now Ross wants 3 years with a large raise in pay. If the Sox still have a vision of a platoon situation I don't know if Ross would be receptive to less playing time. The Gomes signing sets up that platoon situation with a healthy Kalish (Hopefully) or someone else. Gomes has excepted that role based on everything I have read. His teammates love him. Gomes has power that should play in Fenway. He hit 18 hr in 279 ABs last year playing half his games in a pitchers park.

Now both players are below average with the glove (Ross was no gold glover), but remember Ellsbury plays center and covers a lot of ground. Gomes also brings a lot to the club house and is similiar to bringing in Ross as part of the catching position.

[BSN07]

Because of injuries last season I think Ross played more then the Sox would have liked (I think they wanted more a platoon role for him). Now Ross wants 3 years with a large raise in pay. If the Sox still have a vision of a platoon situation I don't know if Ross would be receptive to less playing time. The Gomes signing sets up that platoon situation with a healthy Kalish (Hopefully) or someone else. Gomes has excepted that role based on everything I have read. His teammates love him. Gomes has power that should play in Fenway. He hit 18 hr in 279 ABs last year playing half his games in a pitchers park.

Now both players are below average with the glove (Ross was no gold glover), but remember Ellsbury plays center and covers a lot of ground. Gomes also brings a lot to the club house and is similiar to bringing in Ross as part of the catching position.

 

I wonder if they are trying to fill the clubhouse with good guys to help take the pressure off a Grienke or Hamilton if brought in? Just a thought.

 

In the very least it looks like they are trying to change then attitude and atmosphere in the clubhouse, which can only be taken as a positive.

[Dojji]

Ross isn't that great a defensive outfielder that I'm going to worry about a potential deficiency with Gomes in there. Ross is average or a little better, Gomes is average or a little better with occasional high profile brain farts. Not a lot of difference there

[Behindenemylines]

I wonder if they are trying to fill the clubhouse with good guys to help take the pressure off a Grienke or Hamilton if brought in? Just a thought.

 

In the very least it looks like they are trying to change then attitude and atmosphere in the clubhouse, which can only be taken as a positive.

 

Its possible, but I can't see Grienke here because he is going to want the years (The dollars aren't the problem for the Sox its the 5 or 6 years that he would want). They will not commit to a FA pitcher like that after the Lackey signing. As far as Hamilton I can only see the Sox offer a 2 or 3 year contract (They wish it could be 2) at big $$$$$$$. A Hamilton signing (For 2 or 3 years) would make the Gomes signing a lot more acceptable though.

[BSN07]

Its possible, but I can't see Grienke here because he is going to want the years (The dollars aren't the problem for the Sox its the 5 or 6 years that he would want). They will not commit to a FA pitcher like that after the Lackey signing. As far as Hamilton I can only see the Sox offer a 2 or 3 year contract (They wish it could be 2) at big $$$$$$$. A Hamilton signing (For 2 or 3 years) would make the Gomes signing a lot more acceptable though.

 

Long term contracts for Grienke and Lackey are different situations. Grienke at 29 is in the earlier stage of his prime and would\be in his prime for at least 4/6 years.

 

Lackey at 32 was in the last couple seasons of what would be considered being in his prime years. And the Sox were paying a large chunk for non prime seasons.

 

Grienke with his age and make up is the kind of guy you gamble a long term contract IMO. Lackey was not and never should have been. But we all now that.

 

edit: we should pick this conversation up in the appropriate thread

[User Name]

Ross isn't that great a defensive outfielder that I'm going to worry about a potential deficiency with Gomes in there. Ross is average or a little better, Gomes is average or a little better with occasional high profile brain farts. Not a lot of difference there

 

Gomes is atrocious in left (-25.8 career UZR) and has barely played RF in his career. Ross is decent to good in either corner. But the issue here shouldn't be Ross vs Gomes, because they're probably going to acquire another everyday OF. The issue should be what Gomes does bring to the Red Sox regardless of what Ross does or doesn't do.

 

Gomes' .377 OBP and near .500 SLG% in Oakland are probably what really propelled the Sox to bring him to Fenway. The fact that he seems to not mind being a platoon player is very important as well.

[User Name]

Long term contracts for Grienke and Lackey are different situations. Grienke at 29 is in the earlier stage of his prime and would\be in his prime for at least 4/6 years.

 

Lackey at 32 was in the last couple seasons of what would be considered being in his prime years. And the Sox were paying a large chunk for non prime seasons.

 

Grienke with his age and make up is the kind of guy you gamble a long term contract IMO. Lackey was not and never should have been. But we all now that.

 

edit: we should pick this conversation up in the appropriate thread

 

Aren't his very much publicized anxiety issues the reason signing Greinke supposedly scares some big market teams?

[Palodios]

Aren't his very much publicized anxiety issues the reason signing Greinke supposedly scares some big market teams?

 

I think that matters to Boston who got burned with players who don't fit the market, but I get the feeling that most other teams don't care.

 

You're looking at a guy with a career 3.80 ERA who will probably make 120-140 million. It really doesn't sound like the market has dried up all that much for him.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think it's interesting (and fantastic) that the Sox are really starting to focus a lot more on a players make up rather than just his sabermetrics and talent. Obviously those should be extremely involved in decision making, but it was almost as if the Sox just thought "talent is talent and regardless of the situation, it'll translate."

 

They're getting away from that and going after guys like Kevin Millar. Guys who are talented, but have an outstanding presence in the clubhouse. I think we saw first hand last year how a toxic clubhouse can completely take over a team.

 

Not only that, but you want your young kids coming up into a situation that is lead by guys like Gomes, Pedroia, Ortiz, David Ross, etc.

 

This was a very solid move by the Sox.

 

I am curious, though, if the Sox are still in on Hamilton as a potential LF since I would expect Gomes to play LF. Also, I wonder if Kalish plays RF vs RHP, and Gomes plays LF vs LHP, and then they have someone else in the mix who rotates. Kalish is certainly capable of playing RF at Fenway, and has an absolute cannon for an arm.

[redsoxfan3]

I think it's interesting (and fantastic) that the Sox are really starting to focus a lot more on a players make up rather than just his sabermetrics and talent. Obviously those should be extremely involved in decision making, but it was almost as if the Sox just thought "talent is talent and regardless of the situation, it'll translate."

 

They're getting away from that and going after guys like Kevin Millar. Guys who are talented, but have an outstanding presence in the clubhouse. I think we saw first hand last year how a toxic clubhouse can completely take over a team.

 

Not only that, but you want your young kids coming up into a situation that is lead by guys like Gomes, Pedroia, Ortiz, David Ross, etc.

 

This was a very solid move by the Sox.

 

I am curious, though, if the Sox are still in on Hamilton as a potential LF since I would expect Gomes to play LF. Also, I wonder if Kalish plays RF vs RHP, and Gomes plays LF vs LHP, and then they have someone else in the mix who rotates. Kalish is certainly capable of playing RF at Fenway, and has an absolute cannon for an arm.

 

This is very important. Signing positive guys in the clubhouse is good. I am not sure if this falls into the moneyball category, but definitely getting guys that will have a positive impact in the clubhouse who can hit for power are a plus. Gomes' .377 OBP last year is a plus, whether he can do that again next year is to be seen, but if we can sign these "Kevin Millar" type guys that will help this team out.

[SoxSport]

Gomes is a perfect platoon with Nava in LF. Nava hits RHP, Gomes hits LHP. Kalish will have to play RF by himself since Ross wants too much to be a platoon player. It's even money Kalish comes back strong his 2nd year away from injury. Plus the school is still out on Hamilton, who would fill the middle of the lineup in a big way. This guy is one of the top 3 or 4 hitters when he's healthy. Steal him while everybody is 2nd guessing about his drinking issues. I don't think the latter have cost him any games in Texas lately.

[Behindenemylines]

Gomes has a personality that would have fit into the 2004 Sox club house. The Sox had some success with that and need some good character guys that seem to be well liked by their teammates. Gomes is a platoon player and he knows he is.

[Lord Snow]

The Gomes signing was a bad one because he was overpaid.

 

His 2012 campaign was not incredible and he in no way deserved a 2-year deal. Nobody else was going to give him that kind of money.

 

At 1-year $5M it's an okay move, but 2 years is just a joke. There is a major possibility that this guy comes out and is dead wood in 2013 and the Sox are stuck with him all year, and next, or they have to bite the bullet and eat $8-9M.

 

People point to his numbers versus left-handed pitching and act like platoons always work out ideally. When in fact quite the opposite is true. Part-time players almost never post elite numbers. Somebody like Gomes will post good numbers versus lefties if he gets to play everyday and face right handed pitchers too, but in all likelihood his numbers against left handed pitching will be marginalized in a limited part-time role.

 

He is not a Cody Ross. Ross posted better numbers against lefties, and he was a very good outfielder. Something Gomes simply is not. Gomes is a bad outfielder, one of the worst defensive players in major league baseball.

 

The Sox probably face a lefty starter 2/5 games so you're going to have Gomes on the bench 3/5 games? He is useless as a defensive replacement and a pinch runner. I'd rather have Ichiro for 1-year $5M on my bench, at least he can pinch run and play all 3 defensive positions and he can pinch hit too.

[BSN07]

The Gomes signing was a bad one because he was overpaid.

 

His 2012 campaign was not incredible and he in no way deserved a 2-year deal. Nobody else was going to give him that kind of money.

 

At 1-year $5M it's an okay move, but 2 years is just a joke. There is a major possibility that this guy comes out and is dead wood in 2013 and the Sox are stuck with him all year, and next, or they have to bite the bullet and eat $8-9M.

 

People point to his numbers versus left-handed pitching and act like platoons always work out ideally. When in fact quite the opposite is true. Part-time players almost never post elite numbers. Somebody like Gomes will post good numbers versus lefties if he gets to play everyday and face right handed pitchers too, but in all likelihood his numbers against left handed pitching will be marginalized in a limited part-time role.

 

He is not a Cody Ross. Ross posted better numbers against lefties, and he was a very good outfielder. Something Gomes simply is not. Gomes is a bad outfielder, one of the worst defensive players in major league baseball.

 

The Sox probably face a lefty starter 2/5 games so you're going to have Gomes on the bench 3/5 games? He is useless as a defensive replacement and a pinch runner. I'd rather have Ichiro for 1-year $5M on my bench, at least he can pinch run and play all 3 defensive positions and he can pinch hit too.

 

 

Awesome, I've been waiting for talksox to get an expert in here so we will finally know what these players should be signing for on the open market.

 

I'm no expert but I was only going off his value the last two years ('11- 6.6M '12-9.7M(per fangraphs)) when I decided it was a valuable sign. But hey, what the hell do stats know right?

[NativeBostonian]

Gomes has a personality that would have fit into the 2004 Sox club house. The Sox had some success with that and need some good character guys that seem to be well liked by their teammates. Gomes is a platoon player and he knows he is.

 

I agree with you on that one. The Red Sox need to build a team like the 2004 Red Sox.