Valentines timing on pulling pitchers ?

[agon28]

As any manager will tell you, one of the toughest parts of the job is deciding when to pull pitchers. Valentine seems to be struggling with this time and time again as pitchers are left in when clearly they do not have their good stuff that evening. Aceves against the Twins giving up a gopher ball is one example, Melancon against the Yankees. Many are calling for Valentines dismissal, but it's very hard to determine if it's just the makeup of this team, or if it's him.

[Thunder]

As any manager will tell you' date=' one of the toughest parts of the job is deciding when to pull pitchers. Valentine seems to be struggling with this time and time again as pitchers are left in when clearly they do not have their good stuff that evening. Aceves against the Twins giving up a gopher ball is one example, Melancon against the Yankees. Many are calling for Valentines dismissal, but it's very hard to determine if it's just the makeup of this team, or if it's him.[/quote']

 

Join the club.

[jung]

The biggest mistake V made with Ace was leaving it in his hands to decide to try to pick a corner instead of just giving in and throwing a cookie right down main street. I just don't quite understand why V does not know his players better than he appears to know them. Maybe it is asking to much to have acclimated to the wide variety of nuttiness on this team. But even at 3-2 V should have held up four fingers, instructing Ace to walk Mauer...and then should have pulled Ace at that point.

 

V has now learned that he cannot use Padilla against the Yankees....and hopefully has learned that if you leave Ace in a spot where he is presented an option that is best for the team but might also get him pulled from the game....Ace is not picking that option. Ace threw up that cookie in my view because he pretty much had concluded that it was going to be the last pitch he threw in that game, one way or the other. If he tried to pick a corner and missed it loading the bases, V would have pulled Ace for sure. Ace did not like that idea and tossed up that cookie I guess hoping he could get it by Mauer. As I said before, in the game thread we have seen Ace give in to the hitter before this year which is why he has given up so many dingers.

 

For all his tough exterior and tough appearance, he gives in to the hitter far to many times for my liking.....and I don't at all like this new thing of his....chasing coaches and players off the mound.

[Bellhorn04]

Francona was always getting criticized for this too. And I think the manager before Francona may have run into an occasional problem with it.

 

Can anybody name the last Red Sox manager who most agreed did a consistently good job pulling pitchers at the right time?

 

Me either.

[Thunder]

Francona was always getting criticized for this too. And I think the manager before Francona may have run into an occasional problem with it.

 

Can anybody name the last Red Sox manager who most agreed did a consistently good job pulling pitchers at the right time?

 

Me either.

 

Name any manager who pulls pitchers at the perfect time.

[Bellhorn04]

Name any manager who pulls pitchers at the perfect time.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. It's an inexact science to say the least.

 

To go to the other night's game, if Aceves walks Mauer and they bring in Breslow to face Morneau, and Morneau hits a rocket somewhere, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of people saying Valentine was a bonehead for pulling his closer in that situation.

[jung]

Not thirty pitches in they wouldn't. Ace was up to something like 32-33 pitches I think. I have little doubt that if Ace had put up four fingers at 3-2 and had him walk Mauer he would have at that point pulled Ace.

[Bellhorn04]

Not thirty pitches in they wouldn't. Ace was up to something like 32-33 pitches I think. I have little doubt that if Ace had put up four fingers at 3-2 and had him walk Mauer he would have at that point pulled Ace.

 

But Aceves has shown the ability to handle 30+ pitch outings. Less than a week earlier he threw 37 pitches against the Yankees and ended by getting through the heart of the Yankees' order.

[Elktonnick]

But Aceves has shown the ability to handle 30+ pitch outings. Less than a week earlier he threw 37 pitches against the Yankees and ended by getting through the heart of the Yankees' order.

 

BV problem is complicated by the fact that the starters sucked for the first part of the season. His bullpen is gassed as a result. So what does any one expect. The fact that McClure is clueless and Tuck is a jerk for not talking to the manager from day one didn't help matters either.

[Thunder]

BV problem is complicated by the fact that the starters sucked for the first part of the season. His bullpen is gassed as a result. So what does any one expect. The fact that McClure is clueless and Tuck is a jerk for not talking to the manager from day one didn't help matters either.

 

Doesn't help that there's no one good in the bullpen. Scott Atchison is good, but he's on the DL.

[Elktonnick]

Doesn't help that there's no one good in the bullpen. Scott Atchison is good' date=' but he's on the DL.[/quote']

 

There were a few good relievers for a while but are worn out now. It was inevitable.

[3rdManOut]

We have the team from Pawtucket for a reason. Are any of our pitchers down there good enough to try for a start in Fenway?