Revisiting Scutaro-for-Mortensen

[Bellhorn04]

It doesn't matter. Mortensen stinks. I've come around to the king's point of view.

 

I'm sympathetic to your cause, Juiced...

 

Mortensen has pitched 49.2 MLB innings in relief now. His numbers in those innings are pretty good. But it's still a small sample, less than a season, and mostly in low-leverage innings. We do need the sample to expand before we can draw any conclusions on the guy's long-term effectiveness.

[a700hitter]

It doesn't matter. Mortensen stinks. I've come around to the king's point of view.

Okay. You convince lospunchados. I have spent too much time talking about this sack of balls.

[Orange Juiced]

I'm sympathetic to your cause, Juiced...

 

Mortensen has pitched 49.2 MLB innings in relief now. His numbers in those innings are pretty good. But it's still a small sample, less than a season, and mostly in low-leverage innings. We do need the sample to expand before we can draw any conclusions on the guy's long-term effectiveness.

 

My original post to start the thread was simply to say that we have the surprising results (so far) that Mortensen has been more valuable than Scutaro has been this year. And he has been. It wasn't a statement on whether he'd ever be a dominant reliever or whatever. I think what he is is a pretty effective long reliever, last-man-in-the-bullpen kind of guy. And, considering that he only costs less than 500k, that's a lot of real value.

 

I don't ever expect him to be a good starter or a high-leverage guy. But that's ok...every team needs quality low-leverage guys. Mortensen fits that category quite nicely.

[lospunchados]

It is a small sample size and i'm not saying he is dominant. But he can be very useful in a bullpen. He won't be a 8th or ninth inning guy but you need alot of pitchers now and he seems like he can hold his own.

 

As for him always pitching in low stress innings, yeah mostly but i mean bases loaded, one run game with Prince at the dish, he did all right.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Clayton Mortensen would be deeply honored to know the level of discussion he has generated here.

[a700hitter]

I think Clayton Mortensen would be deeply honored to know the level of discussion he has generated here.

Who figured that he is thread-worthy.

[Orange Juiced]

For all the talk about how much he stinks, the guy has made it to the frickin' MAJOR LEAGUES. There probably isn't a single guy in this entire forum that he couldn't make look pretty silly. We all wish we had half the talent he has.

 

Obviously when we talk about major leaguers "stinking" it's relative to other major leaguers, not regular people like us, but still. If we had to get in the box against him, we'd be embarrassed.

[MJantomaso]

Didn't we trade Lars Anderson for a 27 year old AA player? He must suck too:/

[a700hitter]

For all the talk about how much he stinks, the guy has made it to the frickin' MAJOR LEAGUES. There probably isn't a single guy in this entire forum that he couldn't make look pretty silly. We all wish we had half the talent he has.

 

Obviously when we talk about major leaguers "stinking" it's relative to other major leaguers, not regular people like us, but still. If we had to get in the box against him, we'd be embarrassed.

But .. eh... I don't think he wants to play against us. I'd love to have him on my softball team, but I don't think that he would be interested. He wants to play in the Bigs, but he is finding it difficult, because he stinks.

[a700hitter]

Didn't we trade Lars Anderson for a 27 year old AA player? He must suck too:/

Worse than that. He's a knuckleball pitcher. They aren't even real pitchers.

[Dojji]

Punto is irrelevant. If we keep Scutaro, the guy we miss out on is Ciriaco.

 

Could just be me, but I'd take Ciriaco.

[MJantomaso]

Worse than that. He's a knuckleball pitcher. They aren't even real pitchers.

 

Knuckleballers are the McDonald's workers of the MLB. Everything else failed on them so now they are on their last resort before becoming a hobo.

[a700hitter]

Punto is irrelevant. If we keep Scutaro, the guy we miss out on is Ciriaco.

 

Could just be me, but I'd take Ciriaco.

They kept Punto making us miss out on Ciriaco for most of the season or did you forget that?

[SoxFanForsyth]

exactly who is he.. we signed him in the offseason and never to use him.. but we keep using bum Albers and DiceK this year and we used Bedard last year even though we had Milwood at AAA.

 

and not that i miss Albers, but we gave him up for Breslow.. hmm

 

Albers has a career 3.81 ERA pre ASB, and a career 6.08 ERA post ASB.

 

He had a 2.55 ERA pre ASB last year, and a 7.36 ERA post ASB last year.

 

The Sox sold high on him. It was a good trade for the Sox.

[BornToRun]

Plus. I can't back this up and I'm going purely from memory but it seems like Albers always s*** the bed in big situations.

[Bellhorn04]

The one thing I loved about Albers is that he has almost always pitched well against the Yankees. His numbers against them are so good it's hilarious.

[a700hitter]

Albers has a career 3.81 ERA pre ASB, and a career 6.08 ERA post ASB.

 

He had a 2.55 ERA pre ASB last year, and a 7.36 ERA post ASB last year.

 

The Sox sold high on him. It was a good trade for the Sox.

It was a nothing trade. They exchanged one middle bull pen piece for another. It was as nothing a trading deadline as they could have had.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It was a nothing trade. They exchanged one middle bull pen piece for another. It was as nothing a trading deadline as they could have had.

 

It allows them to move Morales into the rotation without losing a LHP in the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

It allows them to move Morales into the rotation without losing a LHP in the bullpen.

Like I said it was a nothing trade. They could have moved Morales to the rotation any time they wanted. They have a lefty in the pen with Miller.

[BornToRun]

Like I said it was a nothing trade. They could have moved Morales to the rotation any time they wanted. They have a lefty in the pen with Miller.

 

You'd be okay with one lefty?

[a700hitter]

You'd be okay with one lefty?

1or 2 lefties in the pen is not going to make a difference for us. I don't think that was our biggest concern. Did anyone think before the trading deadline: "damn, I hope they pick up a lefty BP guy so we can put Morales in the rotation"? I don't think anyone had that on their mind. People are just rationalizing the move now so we can feel good about it. Don't get me wrong, Breslow is a nice BP pitcher, but exchanging Albers for him was not a burning need.

[BornToRun]

Yeah but it allowed us to improve the rotation in house and I'm okay with that. I don't think this is the team you go all out on at the deadline to improve.

[a700hitter]

Yeah but it allowed us to improve the rotation in house and I'm okay with that. I don't think this is the team you go all out on at the deadline to improve.

I agree. I voted to sell. I think this was as close to a nothing move as they could have made. It certainly wasn't a "buy" move.

[BornToRun]

I agree. I voted to sell. I think this was as close to a nothing move as they could have made. It certainly wasn't a "buy" move.

 

I like the move. It's an improvement and helps us out without giving up anything of real value. A optimistic as I am, I was felt that standing pat was the proper strategy for this team. We're not in good enough shape to warrant a major deal but not in bad enough shape for a fire sale. I think BC deserves credit for not going nuts and just staying put for the most part.

[circus catch]

The thing I'll miss most is saying Hey, Hey, Hey - Its MAAAAAtt Albers!

 

But its not a nothing trade. Breslow is a better pitcher than Albers, this year and career wise. Albers' WAR this year is -0.2, and 1.6 for his career. Breslow is 0.4 and 2.7. And having a second lefty can be important, especially with teams like the Yankees, who we still have lots of games with.

[Spitball]

It was a nothing trade. They exchanged one middle bull pen piece for another. It was as nothing a trading deadline as they could have had.

 

Not at all. If you can get a left handed relief pitcher who has a strikeout rate at 8.7/9 and base on ball rate at 2.7/9 for a right handed relief pitcher at 5.7/9 and walking 3.4/9, you do it every single time you get the opportunity. It was a good trade.

 

I am not saying I would not have preferred a starting pitcher, but the Albers trade was a wise trade.

[Dojji]

I hope the fans here aren't dumb enough to think that Scutaro would be starting at shortstop by the way. He was done as an every day shortstop 2 years ago. The Rockies used him at second base almost exclusively and he struggled at THAT.

 

Of all the people we lost last year, to be grieved over the loss of Scutaro is just bizarre.

 

Jed Lowrie I could understand. We could really use his services right about now.

 

Josh Reddick I could understand . He's been hitting like a middle of the order bat and it's blindingly clear that we gave up on him a year too soon -- and where the heck is Andrew Bailey?

 

Scutaro? Really?

[Bellhorn04]

I hope the fans here aren't dumb enough to think that Scutaro would be starting at shortstop by the way. He was done as an every day shortstop 2 years ago. The Rockies used him at second base almost exclusively and he struggled at THAT.

 

Of all the people we lost last year, to be grieved over the loss of Scutaro is just bizarre.

 

Jed Lowrie I could understand. We could really use his services right about now.

 

Josh Reddick I could understand . He's been hitting like a middle of the order bat and it's blindingly clear that we gave up on him a year too soon -- and where the heck is Andrew Bailey?

 

Scutaro? Really?

 

My guess is that the Scutaro trade is kind of symbolic to some people of our front office being stingy and full of s*** this year.

[Orange Juiced]

Not at all. If you can get a left handed relief pitcher who has a strikeout rate at 8.7/9 and base on ball rate at 2.7/9 for a right handed relief pitcher at 5.7/9 and walking 3.4/9, you do it every single time you get the opportunity. It was a good trade.

 

I am not saying I would not have preferred a starting pitcher, but the Albers trade was a wise trade.

 

Absolutely. 700 is dead wrong about this. Just because it wasn't a "big" or flashy trade doesn't mean it wasn't a wise one. This gives them more flexibility, and the fact of the matter is that Breslow is a better pitcher than Albers is.

 

Career #s:

Albers: 4.78 era, 92 era+, 1.50 whip, 6.4 k/9, only 2 (out of 7) years with an era below 4.50

Breslow: 3.00 era, 141 era+, 1.23 whip, 7.8 k/9, every one of his 7 years he has had an era below 3.80

 

I mean, it's no contest as to who is a better pitcher, Breslow or Albers. So if you can trade a generally bad pitcher having a good year for a generally really good pitcher (who is also having a good year), that means you're selling high on the generally bad pitcher, which is always a good thing.

 

Ergo, the trade, while not a major trade, was a very good one, and it improved the Boston Red Sox. Isn't that what you want to do in trades? :dunno:

[a700hitter]

Absolutely. 700 is dead wrong about this. Just because it wasn't a "big" or flashy trade doesn't mean it wasn't a wise one. This gives them more flexibility, and the fact of the matter is that Breslow is a better pitcher than Albers is.

 

Career #s:

Albers: 4.78 era, 92 era+, 1.50 whip, 6.4 k/9, only 2 (out of 7) years with an era below 4.50

Breslow: 3.00 era, 141 era+, 1.23 whip, 7.8 k/9, every one of his 7 years he has had an era below 3.80

 

I mean, it's no contest as to who is a better pitcher, Breslow or Albers. So if you can trade a generally bad pitcher having a good year for a generally really good pitcher (who is also having a good year), that means you're selling high on the generally bad pitcher, which is always a good thing.

 

Ergo, the trade, while not a major trade, was a very good one, and it improved the Boston Red Sox. Isn't that what you want to do in trades? :dunno:

You guys have completely missed my point. I have said consistently that I like Breslow. Second, I never said that Breslow wasn't an upgrade over Albers. I said that it didn't address the team's major need-- starting pitching. To those who say that getting a Breaslow allows us to put Morales in the rotation, I disagree. We'd already had him in the rotation. We didn't put him back in the pen because the pen was struggling. We put him back in the pen, because we already had 5 starters. Our 5 starters stink, and pitting Morales back in the rotation should help, bit we didn't need Breslow to make that move. We needed Cook to do his Home Run Derby routine 3 times in a row. He would have been replaced with Morales whether or not we got Breslow. Morales was already in house, and he will not be enough. Who takes Doubs spot when he hits his innings limit at the end of August? Do they go back to Cook? Dice K? Are they solutions? Is the solution that we blow out Doubs arm by throwing him 200 innings? Who steps in if Beckett lands on the DL or Lester continues to s*** all over himself? The problem is not getting Breslow. Do I have to type it all in caps. I have no problem upgrading a bullpen spot in a vacuum. The observation that I have made that it was a nothing Trade Deadline for the Sox is because it did not address the major need that this team has had since day 1m. We don't have enough good starting pitching. About that, I am completely right. If they don't get at least a wild card berth, the starting pitching will be the reason. Ther Sox should have won that game last night, but we sent an over the hill infwrior pitcher to the mound that had their big dogs licking their chops. It was a missed opportunity at home. Cook shouild not be in this rotation down the stretch. He should not even be on the roster.