Papi's Latest Rant

[FenwayWest]

My thoughts...

 

He makes a really good point. The sox don't hesitate to throw long term deals to other players. If I were him, and I'm looking around my clubhouse, and I'm seeing half these guys on the DL, the other half not producing, and they're secured with long term deal... yeah, I'd have a little resentment.

 

He had a couple rough years there, and it got to the edge a couple yrs back, but he's really bounced back. He shows up in spring, he's healthy, in shape. He's taken on a leadership role with the team. This guy is doing everything you could hope him to do, and is the sole representative for the sox at the ASB.

 

He needs to retire a Red Sox. Lets make sure that happens... I'd offer him a 3yr deal worth up to $36M... He's earned it.

 

I might even break the rules and talk to him mid-season on this... With all this drama he's causing and complaining, its not good for the club. He's not happy, and you need your star to be happy. At the VERY least... have the front office call him in, sit him down, and verbally tell him how much he's appreciated and that he WILL be taken care of this winter.

[kapsis21]

some peeps here think he is putting the me first attitude. but i think thats not the case. Papi deserves to get a 3 year deal and an extension for the 4th one.

 

He needs to retire as a REDSOX agreed.

[Elktonnick]

some peeps here think he is putting the me first attitude. but i think thats not the case. Papi deserves to get a 3 year deal and an extension for the 4th one.

 

He needs to retire as a REDSOX agreed.

 

Horse hockey! He is playing well now because he was given a one year deal. He needs the incentive. He would be putting up mediocre numbers if and when given a longer term contract.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Horse hockey! He is playing well now because he was given a one year deal. He needs the incentive. He would be putting up mediocre numbers if and when given a longer term contract.

 

Really? Papi has rarely ever put up " mediocre " numbers

[SoxSport]

I saw a quote yesterday where V said he was a "team player."

 

The public perception of Papi is hardly that. He is a me-me-me prima donna.

[jung]

Ortiz does not have a point. Arbitration gave Ortiz a huge one year income. He is full of s*** with his comments about security. He is humiliated, embarrassed...this in the middle of the season from a guy that just recently claimed to be THE team leader.

 

What David wants is the one year $ numbers and he wants them for 3 years or at least 2 years. I no longer think he would even be satisfied with that money for two years.

 

It does not work that way. You get the most dollars for the shortest term...simple. As the years go up the dollars go down. $14 for one probably translates to something like $10 for 3 for $30 or $12 for 2 for $24. Well I got news for ya'. Ortiz likely does not even want $36 for 3. He wants $14 times 3 and even $36 for 3 is ridiculous for a DH that would be 39-40 years old at the end of that deal.

 

He is making $8M more than any other similarly positioned player so he is getting the Max money.

 

How do I know he wants the 14 x 3? Because based on how it works you would have to be dead and to stupid to fall over to not want the same arbitration deal all over again if you were Ortiz based on how it really works. He made $14 this year. He will likely make $16 in arbitration next year. That will be $30M over two years when a 3 year deal would net him the same $30M. So after making $14 and $16 in arbitration he will likely be able to come back and get at least $16 in arbitration in a third year AGAIN if he does the job next year. But that is not good enough for Big Papi. He wants 14 x 3 for $42M "GUARANTEED" or some other nonsense number.

 

So right in the middle of the season, the season after the September collapse, a guy making this kind of money at his age as a DH is now whining because all of baseball is not going to roll over and negotiate differently for him. You don't get the max money AND the security of term. You either get the max money or you get less money and term. Thats it. There are no other options.

 

Add to that the fact that the Sox are eking the best possible performances out of Ortiz by using the incentive of one year deals and the fact that Ortiz has very few options for teams that can and wlll pay him this kind of money...he should just shut up and play.

[SoxSport]

Really? Papi has rarely ever put up " mediocre " numbers

 

Yeah, they were just plain s*****--for two seasons--a couple of years ago. He shocked everybody by getting in shape and turning it around. But they still had to pay him for s***ing the bed. And they gave him a generous contract even though the perception was he was washed up.

[SoxSport]

My thoughts...

 

He makes a really good point. The sox don't hesitate to throw long term deals to other players. If I were him, and I'm looking around my clubhouse, and I'm seeing half these guys on the DL, the other half not producing, and they're secured with long term deal... yeah, I'd have a little resentment.

 

He had a couple rough years there, and it got to the edge a couple yrs back, but he's really bounced back. He shows up in spring, he's healthy, in shape. He's taken on a leadership role with the team. This guy is doing everything you could hope him to do, and is the sole representative for the sox at the ASB.

 

He needs to retire a Red Sox. Lets make sure that happens... I'd offer him a 3yr deal worth up to $36M... He's earned it.

 

.

 

Papi got his long term deal some years ago after he turned 30. The Red Sox policy is they don't give long term deals to guys over 32. It's a wise policy.

 

He'll never get 3/36 out of them. They've given out enough bad contracts lately.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Yeah' date=' they were just plain s*****--for two seasons--a couple of years ago. He shocked everybody by getting in shape and turning it around. But they still had to pay him for s***ing the bed. And they gave him a generous contract even though the perception was he was washed up.[/quote']

 

I'm assuming your talking about the 08 and 09 seasons? In 2008 he had 23 hrs in 109 gm ( about 30+ in a full season ) with 89 RBI = .82 RBI/gm ...162x.82 = 133 RBI for a full season.... So given a full season , your looking at 34 hr 133 RBI ?

 

The 2009 season, he started off horrible and ended up being the 2nd half MVP ( if that was an award ) but still finished with 28 hrs and 99 RBI.... Those are far from s*****

[example1]

Papi bitches about the contracts they have handed out, but seems not to notice they ones they haven't. Where are Pedro, Damon, Lowe, Beltre and Papelbon now? They will occasionally pay big money to add a piece to the team, but they rarely pay big money to keep a piece on the team.

 

I hate to even bring it up, but would anyone be shocked if it turned out Ortiz had been juicing this whole time? Yes, they do testing, but they generally just catch people for masking agents, not the drugs themselves... which implies to me that the masking agents probably work. Why else would people use them?

 

It sure looked like his career had come to a grinding halt about 2 years ago, and suddenly he's hitting comparably to the best players in the league--in multiple contract years. He's getting upset that the Red Sox apparently aren't falling for the bait, and I wouldn't be shocked if the FO is waiting for the other shoe to drop: Ortiz gets contract, Ortiz stops enhancing his performance, Ortiz becomes the player who was a continuation of 2009 and who is in his late 30s.

 

I really like Papi, but once you get caught once it really opens the door to speculation around performance and contracts. What would you do for a $14m, multi-year contract?

[ellsburyforMVP]

Papi bitches about the contracts they have handed out, but seems not to notice they ones they haven't. Where are Pedro, Damon, Lowe, Beltre and Papelbon now? They will occasionally pay big money to add a piece to the team, but they rarely pay big money to keep a piece on the team.

 

I hate to even bring it up, but would anyone be shocked if it turned out Ortiz had been juicing this whole time? Yes, they do testing, but they generally just catch people for masking agents, not the drugs themselves... which implies to me that the masking agents probably work. Why else would people use them?

 

It sure looked like his career had come to a grinding halt about 2 years ago, and suddenly he's hitting comparably to the best players in the league--in multiple contract years. He's getting upset that the Red Sox apparently aren't falling for the bait, and I wouldn't be shocked if the FO is waiting for the other shoe to drop: Ortiz gets contract, Ortiz stops enhancing his performance, Ortiz becomes the player who was a continuation of 2009 and who is in his late 30s.

 

I really like Papi, but once you get caught once it really opens the door to speculation around performance and contracts. What would you do for a $14m, multi-year contract?

 

 

Just to summarize , are you implying that Ortiz is "juicing"?? And if so...... Seriously bro:thumbdown

[kapsis21]

yet another f***ing negative rant about a player who is actually hitting well this season.. so that implies he is juicing...cmon people WTF is wrong with you

[Divinity]

yet another f***ing negative rant about a player who is actually hitting well this season.. so that implies he is juicing...cmon people WTF is wrong with you

 

You realize David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

 

We all know how Manny turned out since then. It's not unreasonable for people to be a little suspicious.

[kapsis21]

You realize David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

 

We all know how Manny turned out since then. It's not unreasonable for people to be a little suspicious.

 

yes in 2003 though people were using any medication knowingly unknowingly. and being tested for something doesnt turn him into a roider like AROD admitted he did.

you really dont have any credibility except the leak records and he has been clean since.

so STFU.

[kapsis21]

Horse hockey! He is playing well now because he was given a one year deal. He needs the incentive. He would be putting up mediocre numbers if and when given a longer term contract.

 

sign him for 3 year 36 mill and 4th year option for 10 mil if he reaches certain milestones.

12 mill is cheap for what the others are making on this roster. not sure if he would accept it though.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I hate to even bring it up' date=' but would anyone be shocked if it turned out Ortiz had been juicing this whole time?[/b'] Yes, they do testing, but they generally just catch people for masking agents, not the drugs themselves... which implies to me that the masking agents probably work. Why else would people use them?

 

Not at all.

 

OT, he's sick of Boston and I don't really blame him.

[NativeBostonian]

Really? Papi has rarely ever put up " mediocre " numbers

 

You don't remember when he was slumping do you? How quickly people forget they were about to run him out of town.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Ortiz clearly realizes the market wont give him a long term deal. Sox are in a position of strengh and he knows it. We can go to arb again and he accepts great if not draft picks. Ortiz can really only play for 15 teams and none of them are realistically going to give him a giant multi year deal.

[example1]

For those of you offended by my post, answer this question: (and I'm asking in all seriousness and with an open mind):

 

In this age post-steroid-testing, how is an intelligent fan supposed to protect himself emotionally or intellectually from the possibility that our favorite players might juice for personal gain?

 

I'm not one to lay blame on the blameless, but for any of these guys, how do we protect our discussions from the possibility that it is still happening or still playing a role? I don't see a clear answer, and only two possibilities:

1) assume nobody is doing it anymore

2) assume that players might be doing it and remain skeptical

 

The first approach makes you seem naive--especially if the player gets caught a second time--the second like a judgmental *******. Neither of those unenviable positions is my fault or your fault, it is the players' fault for doing it in the first.

 

I'm willing to take s*** from people for stating what probably half the board is already thinking. That's fine. Just realize that a simple question is "if a guy can hit 35 HR and 100 RBI without juicing, why would they do it in the first place?"

 

I don't like it about myself that I have to be suspicious, but I don't feel intellectually honest if I ignore my suspicions and I wouldn't blame personnel in the Sox FO if they were hesitant about putting too much faith in the guy too, especially when being so conscious about getting out from bad contracts.

 

As an old poster from this site used to say, YMMV-your mileage may vary.

[FenwayWest]

Crawford - $20M/yr

Gonzalez - $22M/yr

Lackey - $16M/yr

Beckett - $17M/yr

 

There's four players in the clubhouse making more than him and contributing less than him. So yeah, I think he has a legit gripe.

[example1]

Welcome to the world of baseball David. He makes considerably more than DHs and acknowledged that the Sox spent more to keep him for one season than they would have on a multi year deal. The reason he went to arb is that nobody else would pay him more than his arb value. Maybe they will next year but he ain't going to get paid like Crawford or Gonzalez. Bradford on WEEI noted that it is actually a player like JD Drew who has Papi pissed off. In any case I'm not going to cry for him. I like him but his timing sucks.

[jacksonianmarch]

yes in 2003 though people were using any medication knowingly unknowingly. and being tested for something doesnt turn him into a roider like AROD admitted he did.

you really dont have any credibility except the leak records and he has been clean since.

so STFU.

 

Really? This is what you are going with? Papi is a cheat. So is ARod, so is Manny, so is Pettitte. To defend him in this arena is ludicrous. That being said, I dont give a flying f*** what he is taking. If someone said I could be paid $14 million for next season if I could jack 30 bombs into the seats, I'd be roiding my balls off, literally.

 

Papi is paving his road out of town with this s***. He is a great player who is having an all star season, but his attitude is one of me first and then the team and when a team is struggling, those types can take a team down. On the field, he's always been good, but off the field, his s*** might be part of the toxic culture in the clubhouse. I have a feeling Ortiz wants out and this is one way to make it so. If the sox scuffle over the next 2 weeks and fall far back in the WC race and hopelessly out of the AL East, I wonder who will get the big roider? He'd easily be the best bat on the market

[mvp 78]

He's 36. A 3 year deal would be beyond dumb.

 

Overpay year to year. Keep his focus. The one year deals have revitalized him.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a feeling he is wearing a different uniform in 3 weeks

[FredLynn]

some peeps here think he is putting the me first attitude. but i think thats not the case. Papi deserves to get a 3 year deal and an extension for the 4th one.

 

He needs to retire as a REDSOX agreed.

 

Papi got what he deserved at his age. His rant is revolting. What does he mean when he said "guys like me don't deserve to be treated that way"? Does he mean that its OK to treat others that way, just not prima donna MEFIRSTS like Ortiz? Does he have any idea how selfish his rant sounds to the fans or how divisive it is right now? Even if thats what he thinks, he really ought to know when to keep his mouth shut. This will (or should) be his last year here anyway; lets make is a memorable one instead of an embarassment.

[Elktonnick]

Ortiz latest rant reminds me of the country club red sox of the Yawkey years. It's all about him. The funny part he actually is going to make more money this way then he would have had he gotten the deal he wanted originally. Despite his numbers, Ortiz is what is wrong with the current Red Sox. As far as I am concerned he is now expendable.

[FredLynn]

Ortiz latest rant reminds me of the country club red sox of the Yawkey years. It's all about him. The funny part he actually is going to make more money this way then he would have had he gotten the deal he wanted originally. Despite his numbers' date=' Ortiz is what is wrong with the current Red Sox. As far as I am concerned he is now expendable.[/quote']

 

The sooner the better. We ought to be able to get a decent player in a trade-or a good prospect. Plus, getting rid of him now would send the correct message to our youngsters.

[jung]

Well I don't know that any player is paying any attention to this ******** from Ortiz regardless of what he thinks of himself as a team leader. Any player knows this is about the money. However if the Sox have made mistakes in offering long term big money contracts to other players, each contract for each player is an isolated event unto itself. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

 

1 year deals for Ortiz are working to the Sox advantage presuming they are willing to trade the higher 1 year dollars for the freedom to just end this when age does catch up to Ortiz.

 

I would not look to move Ortiz unless all hope for the year was dashed. Like I said, I don't think a single player will pay any heed to this nonsense.

[ellsburyforMVP]

I have a feeling he is wearing a different uniform in 3 weeks

 

I have a feeling your an idiot..... And no, that's not an "attack" against you, just this statement and EVERY other statement you have about Ortiz... I could honestly fill up 3 pages of a thread about you talking about the sox getting rid of Ortiz... Seriously guy, you have a hard-on about us trading him? Could it possibly be that in a way, even in your Yankee brain, that you realize this team could actually get their s*** together and actually cause problems for your Yankees?

 

Because honestly....... I don't see why else you would be so adamant that we trade our best player? You've been harping on for 3 weeks about us getting rid of Ortiz :dunno::dunno:

[SoxSport]

I'm assuming your talking about the 08 and 09 seasons? In 2008 he had 23 hrs in 109 gm ( about 30+ in a full season ) with 89 RBI = .82 RBI/gm ...162x.82 = 133 RBI for a full season.... So given a full season , your looking at 34 hr 133 RBI ?

 

The 2009 season, he started off horrible and ended up being the 2nd half MVP ( if that was an award ) but still finished with 28 hrs and 99 RBI.... Those are far from s*****

 

He sucked both those seasons--compared to his salary and previous years. Couldn't hit LHP--but Tito stuck with him as he usual did for veterans. At times, he was pathetic. Forget the power stats--his OPS and BA were way down. They did him a favor sticking with him when it looked like he was over the hill. On top of that, he has the steroids cloud hanging over him.

So now the guy comes back, to his credit, but he thinks he's king sh*t. At 36, he is not.