If the sox blew it up thread

[redsoxbeatz]

Right now that looks like the proverbial rearranging of deck chairs on the Titanic. Let him complete a season anyway IMO.

 

Blaaaah... I'd rather fire him now promote someone within as interim and then look for candidates up thru the offseason.

[a700hitter]

Mortensen stinks. He tops out at 87 with his fastball. Melancon stinks too. These are viable garbage time arms -- nothing more.

 

This is untrue this year. Since his return from the minors on June 11 Melancon has an ERA of 0.68 and a BAA of .170. Mortensen for the season has an ERA of 1.33 and a WHIP of .787.

I would take those numbers on my team any day.

Small sample size, basically accumulated during garbage innings. They stink.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree' date=' but if you can get value for him, I'd say do it. I think he'll be a great fit with the Rangers, personally. I think they'll be desperate enough to trade a top chip for him, maybe more depending on how much the Red Sox bite. With Hamilton hitting free agency and a very weak field in the AL this year, this could be their best shot.[/quote']

 

why would they be desperate to get a guy whose stuff has shrunk, who has a clubhouse cancer persona, and is being paid ace money for another 2 full seasons? A deal for Beckett will be one of two things. Either a salary dump, or the sox will be paying a TON of his salary the next 2 seasons to get something of value. But they arent getting a top prospect

[Guest]

Small sample size' date=' basically accumulated during garbage innings. They stink.[/quote']

 

Mortensen has pitched 20 innings and allowed just three earned runs. In no game has he allowed more than one run.

If that stinks I want lots of stinkers on my team.

[a700hitter]

Mortensen has pitched 20 innings and allowed just three earned runs. In no game has he allowed more than one run.

If that stinks I want lots of stinkers on my team.

At Saturday night's game he couldn't throw a strike. He looked intimidated and scared. He is a nobody and he doesn't belong on any teams roster except as the last option out of the pen. I could live with him in that role but not in a role with any real pressure or responsibility. You are entitle to your opinion. I think he stinks.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, Mortensen is a long man/garbage man.

[jung]

Tough sledding for the younger less experienced guys. I felt that Frank suddenly realized where he was and who he was pitching to right in the middle of that that first Jeter at bat and was done then and there.

 

Tough spot for guys to just be thrown into particularly because I just don't think McClure offers much support.

[Bellhorn04]

Tough sledding for the younger less experienced guys. I felt that Frank suddenly realized where he was and who he was pitching to right in the middle of that that first Jeter at bat and was done then and there.

 

The MFY's are always good for a reality check, aren't they? They will bring out whatever fear exists in a pitcher.

[jung]

Yea while I was dying inside it was interesting watching that first Jeter at bat against Frank. If I am not mistaken Frank got the count to 0-2 very quickly....then 1-2 and you could see him just go off the deep end right there. Every pitch after that was an effort to aim the ball, not throw it. While aiming the ball is not the way to go regardless of what kind of pitcher you are, it is easier to see with a guy like Frank who is really flowing when he has got it goin' on.

 

Lets face it, Sox Management decided to turn this year into a wing and a prayer, tape and bubblegum year. The wing broke (several in fact), the prayers have not been answered to any great degree, the tape and bubblegum dried and did not hold.

[SoxSport]

 

Lets face it, Sox Management decided to turn this year into a wing and a prayer, tape and bubblegum year. The wing broke (several in fact), the prayers have not been answered to any great degree, the tape and bubblegum dried and did not hold.

 

They can't afford to skip a year. Not when they are filling all those expensive seats with 3 million or so fans.

 

That's why it's imperative to find the upside quickly on their prospects, and not fill holes with retreads on the cheap. The FA route has put them in an untenable financial position--they can't afford to match the Yankees dollar for dollar. That means they have to rely on their farm system more than they have been doing the last few years.

 

The FO has been far too conservative with bringing young players up and developing them on the job to find the nuggets (like Middlebrooks). Look at Reddick. They traded that guy without knowing what they were trading. He has been breaking out the last two years, surpassing his AAA numbers.

[jung]

That whole Riddeck/Kalish thing has me bamboozled which is likely in part why I would be a poor GM. Seems to me that the guy they really could not value properely at the point they traded Riddick was Kalish. As I recall Kalish had not been able to put more than a month here and a month there of play together because of his injuries.

 

Teams seemed at the time more interested in Kalish for his potential and less interested in Riddick because he appeared to be more of a known quantity with folks valuing Kalish and his upside over Riddick and his upside.

 

While Riddick had not been super impressive up here, he had not done anything particularly disconcerting either. I posted here that I though I had to trust that the Sox had seen enough of both of then to know which they wanted to send packing cause myself, I had no idea any longer how to rate Kalish. Had not seen enough of him.

 

Playing Monday Morning Quarterback Devils Advocate, I guess one thing I would say is that clearly Kalish was going to need more time just to shake off the rust and it should have been a given that Reddick would have delivered more this year.

 

In retrospect, was the choice to move Reddick instead of Kalish an early sign that the Sox were really more than anything using this as a bridge year without really being willing to call it a bridge year?

 

For this year there seems no question that you would have wanted Reddick instead of Kalish and while I did not spend a minute thinking about it at the time, I have to think the Sox knew which guy would provide more for this specific year.

[jacksonianmarch]

I doubt Kalish ever has a yr like Reddick is having now. The guy is on pace for 40 big flys.

[a700hitter]

I doubt Kalish ever has a yr like Reddick is having now. The guy is on pace for 40 big flys.

They are different types of players. Reddick has the livelier bat, but Kalish can steal 30+ bases in a season.

[jacksonianmarch]

They are different types of players. Reddick has the livelier bat' date=' but Kalish can steal 30+ bases in a season.[/quote']

 

I know they are different players, but I think the sox FO thought of Reddick as a 4th OFer type on a good team/starter on a bad team and Kalish as a future stud. Turns out, Reddick is playing like a middle of the order hitter on any team and doing it in the worst park outside of Seattle to hit in.

[Palodios]

why would they be desperate to get a guy whose stuff has shrunk' date=' who has a clubhouse cancer persona, and is being paid ace money for another 2 full seasons? A deal for Beckett will be one of two things. Either a salary dump, or the sox will be paying a TON of his salary the next 2 seasons to get something of value. But they arent getting a top prospect[/quote']

 

Realistically, the Red Sox would probably have to bite 5-10 million to get a top chip for him, but it is definitely within reach for them to get an impact prospect for him. 12 million for a guy like Beckett is a bargain. He had a 2.89 ERA last year with a low 1.0 WHIP, and he's still only 32 years old, with no major injuries.

 

What are better options? Trading that same top chip for a rental like Greinke, Marcum or Hamels? Or trading that same top chip plus some for a guy like Wandy who has rarely ever pitched in pressure situations in the NL? Or for a career #4 starter like Dempster?

 

 

Face it. Finding starting pitching at the trade deadline is a bitch. Someone will want him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Someone would make a move for him, but you arent getting a blue chipper. You might end up getting a guy who makes a huge impact, but it wont be someone in the top 50 in baseball

[lesterkett]

BREAKING: GEORGE BRETT HAS BEEN SUSPENDED AFTER PINE TAR WAS FOUND ON THE BALL HE USED TO THROW OUT THE FIRST PITCH.

[lesterkett]

The NL is the Yankees and the AL is the Red Sox.

[SoxSport]

http://audio.weei.com/a/59157031/bill-lee-thinks-the-red-sox-need-a-change-in-philosophy.htm

 

Listen to Bill Lee on WEEI. He says players use weights too much these days, which weaken joints.

He says Lester pitches around the plate instead of the middle of the plate out. He doesn't get strikes from the umps that way. Interesting views about pitchers overstressed on machines instead of just playing baseball to get into shape.

[Bellhorn04]

http://audio.weei.com/a/59157031/bill-lee-thinks-the-red-sox-need-a-change-in-philosophy.htm

 

Listen to Bill Lee on WEEI. He says players use weights too much these days, which weaken joints.

He says Lester pitches around the plate instead of the middle of the plate out. He doesn't get strikes from the umps that way. Interesting views about pitchers overstressed on machines instead of just playing baseball to get into shape.

 

Lee is probably right on both counts.

[a700hitter]

Lee is probably right on both counts.

Bill Lee knows pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

Bill Lee knows pitching.

 

He does.

[example1]

I doubt Kalish ever has a yr like Reddick is having now. The guy is on pace for 40 big flys.

 

Yeah, except when he has 75% of the year Reddick is having he will do it for a team that matters.

[a700hitter]

Yeah' date=' except when he has 75% of the year Reddick is having he will do it for a team that matters.[/quote']The A's and Red Sox have identical 43-43 records.

[SoxSport]

That whole Riddeck/Kalish thing has me bamboozled which is likely in part why I would be a poor GM. Seems to me that the guy they really could not value properely at the point they traded Riddick was Kalish. As I recall Kalish had not been able to put more than a month here and a month there of play together because of his injuries.

 

Teams seemed at the time more interested in Kalish for his potential and less interested in Riddick because he appeared to be more of a known quantity with folks valuing Kalish and his upside over Riddick and his upside.

 

While Riddick had not been super impressive up here, he had not done anything particularly disconcerting either. I posted here that I though I had to trust that the Sox had seen enough of both of then to know which they wanted to send packing cause myself, I had no idea any longer how to rate Kalish. Had not seen enough of him.

 

Playing Monday Morning Quarterback Devils Advocate, I guess one thing I would say is that clearly Kalish was going to need more time just to shake off the rust and it should have been a given that Reddick would have delivered more this year.

 

In retrospect, was the choice to move Reddick instead of Kalish an early sign that the Sox were really more than anything using this as a bridge year without really being willing to call it a bridge year?

 

For this year there seems no question that you would have wanted Reddick instead of Kalish and while I did not spend a minute thinking about it at the time, I have to think the Sox knew which guy would provide more for this specific year.

 

Kalish was ready to play in Boston two years ago, but Drew was in the way in RF. Then he got hurt in Pawtucket. That killed 2 years of his career. Reddick broke out the first half of last year--then tailed off.

They figured he showed enough value to trade him. The problem was they signed Crawford --filling up the outfield--with Reddick and Kalish in the wings. They blocked up the outfield without giving the youngsters a chance.

 

They shouldn't have made the Bailey trade. They could have easily moved Bard to closer, Aceves to setup, and signed a FA pitcher. But they simply didn't want to spend the money for a FA pitcher. All their pre-season personnel decisions were made with a view towards saving money-- per Henry.

[SoxSport]

Bill Lee knows pitching.

 

Funny story from Lee.

 

First day in school, teacher asked him his name. He said BillLee. Teacher said what is your FULL name? Lee said BillLee. Teacher said, Billy for that, you can stand at the back of the class.

 

Like the guy, but still can't forgive him for that meatball blooper pitch he threw to Perez with the '75 Series almost won. That was not a place for screwing around.

[a700hitter]

Kalish was ready to play in Boston two years ago, but Drew was in the way in RF. Then he got hurt in Pawtucket. That killed 2 years of his career. Reddick broke out the first half of last year--then tailed off.

They figured he showed enough value to trade him. The problem was they signed Crawford --filling up the outfield--with Reddick and Kalish in the wings. They blocked up the outfield without giving the youngsters a chance.

 

They shouldn't have made the Bailey trade. They could have easily moved Bard to closer, Aceves to setup, and signed a FA pitcher. But they simply didn't want to spend the money for a FA pitcher. All their pre-season personnel decisions were made with a view towards saving money-- per Henry.

Yep, and a combination of Bard and Aceves in the 8th and 9th innings would have been cheaper than getting Bailey and Sweeney. Bailey makes $4 million and I am pretty sure that Sweeney makes more than Reddick. Bailey's salary and Sweeney's money could have been invested in a real starter instead of rolling the dice with Bard. In the end their moves were foolish. They could have gone cheap without being stupid.

[a700hitter]

Funny story from Lee.

 

First day in school, teacher asked him his name. He said BillLee. Teacher said what is your FULL name? Lee said BillLee. Teacher said, Billy for that, you can stand at the back of the class.

 

Like the guy, but still can't forgive him for that meatball blooper pitch he threw to Perez with the '75 Series almost won. That was not a place for screwing around.

Most of the time that pitch got popped up or missed entirely even if the batter was sitting on it. It just didn't work out that time.

[Station 13]

http://audio.weei.com/a/59157031/bill-lee-thinks-the-red-sox-need-a-change-in-philosophy.htm

 

He says Lester pitches around the plate instead of the middle of the plate out. He doesn't get strikes from the umps that way. Interesting views about pitchers overstressed on machines instead of just playing baseball to get into shape.

 

Lester now only throw his fastball 30% of the time. It was around 60% 3 years ago. It's easy to understand why he is always at 100 pitches by the 5th inning. Hitters are not helping him out by chasing his crap anymore since he doesn't get ahead.

[Elktonnick]

Lester now only throw his fastball 30% of the time. It was around 60% 3 years ago. It's easy to understand why he is always at 100 pitches by the 5th inning. Hitters are not helping him out by chasing his crap anymore since he doesn't get ahead.

 

Lester's velocity has decreased considerably. I believe it is because he is using the cutter. There have been numerous articles written about this subject. Phil Hughes saw his velocity increase after he stopped throwing the cutter. Buchholtz didn't throw the cutte in 2010 and had a great year. Beckett taught him the cutter and we saw Buchholtz's velocity decline considerably as a result.

 

Now McClure want Cooke to start throwing the cutter.