2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[SoxSport]

I think most managers are still leery of a pitcher throwing 125 pitches or more' date=' for health reasons and also, probably, because the number crunchers have shown them how most pitchers lose effectiveness at that point. Hamels was at 111 pitches after 7. Maddon also pulled Price at 112 pitches with 1 run allowed.[/quote']

 

Absolutely. 125 is the limit. I remember Tito in Philly letting Schilling go 145 pitches--and he'd get bombed every time.

 

But that limit has now shrunk to 100 and below--and the size of the bullpen has increased.

That's typical of the Red Sox, who are near the bottom in the league in pitching.

 

Halladay says it's not the number of pitches--it's how tough the pitches have been. He says some games are tougher than others.

 

110 pitches--it depends on how the pitcher is going and how he feels. A guy throwing a shutout--you send him out for the next inning. He gets in trouble, you take him out.There should be nothing "automatic" about the 8th and even 9th inning. But the agents for relievers would disagree.

[Bellhorn04]

Absolutely. 125 is the limit. I remember Tito in Philly letting Schilling go 145 pitches--and he'd get bombed every time.

 

But that limit has now shrunk to 100 and below--and the size of the bullpen has increased.

That's typical of the Red Sox, who are near the bottom in the league in pitching.

 

Halladay says it's not the number of pitches--it's how tough the pitches have been. He says some games are tougher than others.

 

110 pitches--it depends on how the pitcher is going and how he feels. A guy throwing a shutout--you send him out for the next inning. He gets in trouble, you take him out.There should be nothing "automatic" about the 8th and even 9th inning. But the agents for relievers would disagree.

 

Valentine seems to be attempting to boost the pitch counts a bit. Lester has already had 5 starts of over 115 pitches.

 

IRT the Hamels yank, I think it's just a tough call for the manager. You say leave him in till he gets in trouble. But how much trouble? I assume if the first 2 guys get on you pull him. So then you bring your setup guy in, but instead of a clean inning to pitch he's got 2 men on and nobody out. Maybe your setup man has great numbers in clean innings and not-so-great numbers with inherited runners.

[SoxSport]

Valentine seems to be attempting to boost the pitch counts a bit. Lester has already had 5 starts of over 115 pitches.

 

IRT the Hamels yank, I think it's just a tough call for the manager. You say leave him in till he gets in trouble. But how much trouble? I assume if the first 2 guys get on you pull him. So then you bring your setup guy in, but instead of a clean inning to pitch he's got 2 men on and nobody out. Maybe your setup man has great numbers in clean innings and not-so-great numbers with inherited runners.

 

Depends on how close the game is. 1 or 2 runs, the leadoff batter gets on, you take him out.

3 runs or more, you leave him in for a batter or 2. Depends on how he is throwing. The manager should know that, or else he isn't doing his job.

 

In my view, a reliever is a reliever. if he can't pitch with MOB, he isn't a great reliever. Get somebody who can.

[jung]

That late in the game, if A base runner gets on that could certainly be enough trouble unless he gets on with two outs. Even with two outs, if the game was close, I would likely pull the SP.

[Bellhorn04]

Depends on how close the game is. 1 or 2 runs, the leadoff batter gets on, you take him out.

3 runs or more, you leave him in for a batter or 2. Depends on how he is throwing. The manager should know that, or else he isn't doing his job.

 

In my view, a reliever is a reliever. if he can't pitch with MOB, he isn't a great reliever. Get somebody who can.

 

The guy could still be throwing good but at 111 pitches you know fatigue is going to kick in very soon. You've got a guy in the bullpen with good numbers and he's fully rested and ready to go.

 

I see your side of it too. I just don't envy the managers those decisions. Sometimes it's just rolling the dice and praying.

[SoxSport]

The guy could still be throwing good but at 111 pitches you know fatigue is going to kick in very soon. You've got a guy in the bullpen with good numbers and he's fully rested and ready to go.

 

I see your side of it too. I just don't envy the managers those decisions. Sometimes it's just rolling the dice and praying.

 

 

 

The problem with the guy in the BP is he is an unknown. You don't know how sharp he will be. The guy out on the mound is a known. A pitcher doesn't have the same stuff every appearance.

[Station 13]

Red Sox GM Ben Cherington told Casey Stern and Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio that starting pitching remains his team's top target between now and the trade deadline.

 

 

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/ben-cherington-boston-red-sox-executive-vp-an

[BornToRun]

Garza damn it. Or get Hamels and make me get BTR glue all over the keyboard.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Garza damn it. Or get Hamels and make me get BTR glue all over the keyboard.

 

With the likes of Garza, Hamels, and Grienke all likely on the block, I would be shocked if the Red Sox didn't come up with one of those. And if they do, watch the hell out.

[a700hitter]

With the likes of Garza' date=' Hamels, and Grienke all likely on the block, I would be shocked if the Red Sox didn't come up with one of those. And if they do, watch the hell out.[/quote']I wish I could still let myself dream like you guys. If I dream and then we get Paul Byrd, I'll get very upset.

[BornToRun]

With the likes of Garza' date=' Hamels, and Grienke all likely on the block, I would be shocked if the Red Sox didn't come up with one of those. And if they do, watch the hell out.[/quote']

 

I think we have the pieces to land one of them. Grienke seems like too much of a head case and hasnt pitched well outside of miller park. Garza is probably cheaper in prospects than Hamels and cheaper to keep longer than what's left on his deal, not to mention he has history in the east and has pitched well against all of the teams in the division for the most part.

 

Hamels the prize here though. If we can land him, that makes our rotation an absolute powerhouse considering what we are or should be getting from our big 3. I think we can do a lot better than Erik bedard this season. In Ben we trust.

[BornToRun]

I wish I could still let myself dream like you guys. If I dream and then we get Paul Byrd' date=' I'll get very upset.[/quote']

 

3 big fish to land. I think we have the pieces to make a play for one of them.

[SemperFi Sox]

Beckett and Shaw for Hamels.

[BornToRun]

No.

 

Just. No.

[Bellhorn04]

Why is everyone convinced the Phillies are parting with Hamels? They are a rich team and they need this guy desperately now with Halladay injured and Lee struggling.

[SemperFi Sox]

Why is everyone convinced the Phillies are parting with Hamels? They are a rich team and they need this guy desperately now with Halladay injured and Lee struggling.

 

They are in 4th place and probably be sellers. That's why.

[BornToRun]

They are in 4th place and probably be sellers. That's why.

 

Not to mention that they have a huge load of money tied up in pitching already and he's going to command a huge salary.

[seabeachfred]

Hamels is a non starter in my opinion UNLESS we can ink him to a long term contract if we happen to be able to get him at the deadline. Frankly I don't think we will because Prune Face doesn't seem to want to spend the money. It just seems dumb to take a chance on making the Playoffs with a rent a pitcher when we have so many other holes in our rotation. Maybe it would be better if we wait to see who is available in free agency while we try and add some more y outh to our team and build for the future. Now if Beckett, Lester and Buchholz could also come around..........

[BornToRun]

Hamels is a non starter in my opinion UNLESS we can ink him to a long term contract if we happen to be able to get him at the deadline. Frankly I don't think we will because Prune Face doesn't seem to want to spend the money. It just seems dumb to take a chance on making the Playoffs with a rent a pitcher when we have so many other holes in our rotation. Maybe it would be better if we wait to see who is available in free agency while we try and add some more y outh to our team and build for the future. Now if Beckett' date=' Lester and Buchholz could also come around..........[/quote']

 

We wouldn't make the trade or attempt to if we didn't stand a chance of locking him up. I'm sure that's gonna be taken care of if we start talking to the phillies.

[a700hitter]

We wouldn't make the trade or attempt to if we didn't stand a chance of locking him up. I'm sure that's gonna be taken care of if we start talking to the phillies.

Has any big name pitcher inked a long term extension at the trading deadline as part of a trade in his walk year? I don't think that is a possibility.

[Station 13]

Has any big name pitcher inked a long term extension at the trading deadline as part of a trade in his walk year? I don't think that is a possibility.

 

He's going L.A.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox should be targeting Marcum. He'll be much more affordable than Greinke/Hamels/Garza, much more likely to sign long term, and he's actually succeeded in the AL East. Hell, he has a lower career ERA than Garza too.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox should be targeting Marcum. He'll be much more affordable than Greinke/Hamels/Garza' date=' much more likely to sign long term, and he's actually succeeded in the AL East. Hell, he has a lower career ERA than Garza too.[/quote']

 

I like it.

[TutGadol]

The Red Sox should be targeting Marcum. He'll be much more affordable than Greinke/Hamels/Garza' date=' much more likely to sign long term, and he's actually succeeded in the AL East. Hell, he has a lower career ERA than Garza too.[/quote']

 

I actually like this idea. He'll probably slightly regress according to his BABIP (.262) and LOB% (77.6) but still he seemed pretty consistent in the last 3 years. a 3.6 ERA and 3.8 FIP, can work near the 200 inning mark.

 

I just hope his heater won't get smoked in the east.

[jacksonianmarch]

He also has elbow tendinitis that isn't getting better and may need Tommy John surgery

[jacksonianmarch]

They are in 4th place and probably be sellers. That's why.

 

The Phillies should be looking to lock up Hamels. This yr is a punt yr for the Phillies. Their two best hitters have missed the entire yr. Their best pitcher is on the shelf with a shoulder injury, their 3rd ace has missed time with an oblique injury and their All Star CFer and SS have slumped this yr. They are probably not going to make the playoffs, but with the guys on their roster who should be healthy come 2013, they should dominate the east

[jacksonianmarch]

With the likes of Garza' date=' Hamels, and Grienke all likely on the block, I would be shocked if the Red Sox didn't come up with one of those. And if they do, watch the hell out.[/quote']

 

Hamels is in a different world from the other two. Greinke could be an ace, but his anxiety issues would make him an awesome case for Boston, lol. Garza is more a workhorse type guy who would slot in behind Lester and Beckett as the #3. They'd all be improvements, but Hamels would be the biggest. That being said, I highly, highly, highly doubt the sox make a move for either Hamels or Greinke. Those guys are FA's to be with humongous contracts coming, something the sox have already sunk million into in terms of long term contracts for pitchers. I highly doubt the sox commit $23-25 mil per yr for 7 yrs to another pitcher.

[BornToRun]

The Red Sox should be targeting Marcum. He'll be much more affordable than Greinke/Hamels/Garza' date=' much more likely to sign long term, and he's actually succeeded in the AL East. Hell, he has a lower career ERA than Garza too.[/quote']

 

Hmm. I never thought of Marcum. Thats an interesting idea.

[Bellhorn04]

The Phillies should be looking to lock up Hamels. This yr is a punt yr for the Phillies. Their two best hitters have missed the entire yr. Their best pitcher is on the shelf with a shoulder injury' date=' their 3rd ace has missed time with an oblique injury and their All Star CFer and SS have slumped this yr. They are probably not going to make the playoffs, but with the guys on their roster who should be healthy come 2013, they should dominate the east[/quote']

 

Yeah, that coincides with what I've been thinking.

[SoxFanForsyth]

From a different thread

Not even on topic' date=' odds of Red Sox pursuing Cliff Lee??[/quote']

 

Would it really surprise anyone if the Phillies moved Cliff Lee and used the money saved to sign Cole Hamels?

 

I can definitely see this happening. It gets the Phils younger without having to sacrifice extra salary. And to be honest, I would deal for Lee in a heartbeat. He's having a down year, but he's still an elite pitcher.

 

He is 33, so I would be hesitant to unload a guy like Bogaerts or Barnes for him, but at the same time, he's an absolute ace, and would instantly fix the Red Sox rotation for the next few years.