2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

SFF, your head is in the clouds. Lee was dealt from the Mariners to the Rangers and only had a half season of control, and they got the 6th best prospect in baseball. Now, Garza isnt Lee, but he has another season of control, has a history of success in the AL and is younger which makes him just about as desireable. Also, he and Dempster are the odds on favorites to lead the pitching trade block players and will likely garner significant hauls. Garza is being dealt, IMO, and he is gonna get a frickin haul. Lavarnway would not be the center of the trade since he is 25, not playing great at AAA, and nobody is even sure he is a catcher long term. And, his biggest attribute, power, has fizzled this season. If you want Garza, you're ponying up BIG time.

[vjcsmoke]

I believe he will have to command at least one pitcher and one position player in the #11-50 prospect range. I believe he will also have to get some very good lower level prospects with potential to develop.

 

Epstein has to score with Garza. What he brings back to his organization will be key to his early success and evaluation.

 

So how about a package of Lavarnway, Matsuzaka, Youkilis and a couple of raw but high upside prospects?

 

I think Matsuzaka might thrive in the National league. I know he has been dogged by injuries lately, but he just got healthy. If he continues to pitch well, he will have some value and is on a reasonable contract. Youkilis contract has a 1m buyout, so he's a one year rental, and Lavarnway offers long term starter at C for the Cubs.

 

http://bosoxinjection.com/2012/06/04/youkilis-contract-could-handcuff-red-sox-trade-ability/

[jacksonianmarch]

Oh....My....God....

[Spitball]

So how about a package of Lavarnway, Matsuzaka, Youkilis and a couple of raw but high upside prospects?

 

I think Matsuzaka might thrive in the National league. I know he has been dogged by injuries lately, but he just got healthy. If he continues to pitch well, he will have some value and is on a reasonable contract. Youkilis contract has a 1m buyout, so he's a one year rental, and Lavarnway offers long term starter at C for the Cubs.

 

http://bosoxinjection.com/2012/06/04/youkilis-contract-could-handcuff-red-sox-trade-ability/

 

The Cubs don't want any more older players with big contracts. They have those already. They need youthful and inexpensive players to develop into stars in the coming years.

[mvp 78]

Why would the Sox (sellers) and Cubs (sellers) trade with each other? They'd do better trading with playoff teams.

[Spitball]

For a decent starter (even a rental like Dempster)' date=' I'd trade Lavarnway in a nano-second.[/quote']

 

I go back to my earlier post. I think Dempster may have been auditioning today.

[redsoxbeatz]

I wonder if there is anyway of acquiring Garza? Though we don't want to kill the farm. Maybe Lavarnway, Iggy, Youk (we eat 7 mill?). I dunno

 

I'd love to acquire Garza though.

 

This team of ours wouldn't feel so desperate if the offense could score regularly.

[jacksonianmarch]

Let's say the sox are sellers at the deadline. Who are the trade candidates?

[jacksonianmarch]

I wonder if there is anyway of acquiring Garza? Though we don't want to kill the farm. Maybe Lavarnway, Iggy, Youk (we eat 7 mill?). I dunno

 

I'd love to acquire Garza though.

 

This team of ours wouldn't feel so desperate if the offense could score regularly.

 

The Cubs dealt a top 20 prospect, a top 50 prospect and 2 big league ready defensive backups for Garza. My guess is they'd want a similar return. If that's the case, you're talking Barnes and maybe Bradley

[mvp 78]

I wonder if there is anyway of acquiring Garza? Though we don't want to kill the farm. Maybe Lavarnway, Iggy, Youk (we eat 7 mill?). I dunno

 

I'd love to acquire Garza though.

 

This team of ours wouldn't feel so desperate if the offense could score regularly.

 

Cubs don't want Youk. They have Castro at SS.

[mvp 78]

Let's say the sox are sellers at the deadline. Who are the trade candidates?

 

As in players to dump?

[redsoxbeatz]

Looked at the Cubs prospects.

 

Let me first say, their current big league catchers are hitting a combined .191 with an OPS under .550.

 

They have a guy named Welington Castillo, their 6th best prospect per Keith Law. Don't think he's much to talk about considering the depleted depth on the Cubs right now. He's also 25, has had a couple cups of coffee in the bigs, and didn't fare too well.

 

I could see a deal involving Lavarnway + Coyle + a mid-to-low level guy for Garza working out. I think the Sox have a bit of an advantage because of how well Theo and Hoyer know the Sox farm system.

 

They could even go with a guy like Frank Montas who throws the ball 100 mph, but is very rough and raw on the mound right now to stick in the trade.

 

Perhaps the Sox settle for a couple B level prospects for Youk, or a high ceiling, low floor/level prospect and a B level guy that the Sox could include in the deal.

 

I've read a lot that the Sox are really looking for SP right now, so Garza would fit the bill. He's a guy who isn't afraid to go out there and go right after guys rather than nibbling all the time.

 

A rotation of Lester Beckett Buchholz Garza Doubront, bullpen of Bard, Aceves, Bailey (eventually), Miller, Melancon, Albers, Padilla, and Atchison (until Bailey comes back).

 

Then you have a lineup of:

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Ortiz

Gonzalez

Middlebrooks

Salty

Ross/Sweeney

Aviles

 

You pull the deal on a trade for Garza, and you get healthy. Now all of a sudden you're making a very, very serious run at the AL East, not just a WC.

 

That lineup looks so awesome. I hope CC is good for us.

 

But where did DiceK go? He isn't in the pen or rotation.

[FredLynn]

So how about a package of Lavarnway, Matsuzaka, Youkilis and a couple of raw but high upside prospects?

 

I think Matsuzaka might thrive in the National league. I know he has been dogged by injuries lately, but he just got healthy. If he continues to pitch well, he will have some value and is on a reasonable contract. Youkilis contract has a 1m buyout, so he's a one year rental, and Lavarnway offers long term starter at C for the Cubs.

 

http://bosoxinjection.com/2012/06/04/youkilis-contract-could-handcuff-red-sox-trade-ability/

 

Right. Lavarnway, a prospect who has proven nothing, Youkilis, an expensive washed up 3B/1B, and Matsusaka who has already proven that he sucks. I doubt the Cubs would take two of those guys for free.

[jacksonianmarch]

If DiceK continues to pitch well, he might very well be an attractive trade piece on the open market. Also, if Beckett isnt truly hurt, then he would be a good piece to deal as well. I wonder if the sox would be willing to part with a guy like Lester or even Ellsbury should the right package arise. It'd need to be a good one, though

[FredLynn]

If DiceK continues to pitch well' date=' he might very well be an attractive trade piece on the open market. Also, if Beckett isnt truly hurt, then he would be a good piece to deal as well. I wonder if the sox would be willing to part with a guy like Lester or even Ellsbury should the right package arise. It'd need to be a good one, though[/quote']

 

DiceK is an annual POS who is in his last year of his contract anyway. He is about as attractive as a fart in a spacesuit.

[mvp 78]

I'd be open to trading any ML guy not named Pedey, Gonzalez, WMB, Buchholz, or Doubront.

[jacksonianmarch]

Doubront is off-limits? Interesting.

 

Okay, let's say a team calls about Lester. Would a deal a la Garza get it done in your mind? Top 20 prospect, top 50 prospect and 2 serviceable big league guys who will likely be backups or second rate position players?

[FredLynn]

Lester is a serviceable #3 SP. I would not trade him either unless he is part of a package to get a better pitcher because pitching is our Achilles heel. The idea is to get a good #1 and 2 SP ahead of him. And those kinds of pitchers will become available at the end of this season.

[mvp 78]

Doubront is off-limits? Interesting.

 

Okay, let's say a team calls about Lester. Would a deal a la Garza get it done in your mind? Top 20 prospect, top 50 prospect and 2 serviceable big league guys who will likely be backups or second rate position players?

 

I'd do it.

 

I only keep Doubront as he's cheap and productive. Not sure he'd have trade value that would bring a substantial return. He's worth more to the Sox.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lester is a serviceable #3 SP. I would not trade him either unless he is part of a package to get a better pitcher because pitching is our Achilles heel. The idea is to get a good #1 and 2 SP ahead of him. And those kinds of pitchers will become available at the end of this season.

 

Hamels is the only one available, and I doubt the sox or the yanks are in on him. He's gonna get Lee's AAV with CC's length.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd do it.

 

I only keep Doubront as he's cheap and productive. Not sure he'd have trade value that would bring a substantial return. He's worth more to the Sox.

 

Well, the question is, do you think he can continue on this path, improve on this path, or is due for a correction. He K's a lot of hitters, but he also gives up a LOT of homeruns and walks his fair share. He's either on his way to being another Lester or another Fossum. The question is, do you sneak him into a deal for a bigger fish now, or do you want to see what lies at the end of this rainbow. I think he has big league stuff, and I'd want him too, but I can see if people wanted to cash in their lottery ticket with him as well

[FredLynn]

Hamels is the only one available' date=' and I doubt the sox or the yanks are in on him. He's gonna get Lee's AAV with CC's length.[/quote']

 

Greinke is also available. We SHOULD be in on both of them. There are other pitchers also becoming FAs who would be upgrades over what we have now. Furthermore, trades for top tier pitching could also be worked out.

[mvp 78]

I hold onto Doubie unless someone makes a crazy offer. Casey Fossum "the Blade" was ok (he's great in MVP 04 for Xbox), but Doubie has a better build. I'm in it for the next few years with him. If I was the Cubs and had Doubie, I'd probably try and sell high.

[jung]

Based on the way baseball is going I think you have to think twice about trading away pitching and take advantage of anybody stupid enough to trade you pitching.

[d-money]

I wouldnt trade Lester, even if he has been up and down this season.Its hard to find lefty pitching.Beckett i would move if they are out of it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Doubront is off-limits? Interesting.

 

Okay, let's say a team calls about Lester. Would a deal a la Garza get it done in your mind? Top 20 prospect, top 50 prospect and 2 serviceable big league guys who will likely be backups or second rate position players?

 

Garza =/= Lester

 

Lester is a better pitcher, first off. He's having a down year, and Cherrington isn't going take a trade on him based on 10 starts this year vs his career outside of that.

 

He's also a power lefty, which is very hard to come by. He's got a combined 3.33 ERA over his past 4 years in the AL East. Lester's worst year (3.47 ERA) is better than Garza's best year (3.70) in the East.

 

Plus, Lester is under control for 2013 (11.625mm) and has a club option in 2014 (13mm) which will absolutely be picked up. I'd be willing to bet that the AAV of Garza over the next 2 years will be much higher than Lester.

 

More years, less expensive, and a better pitcher. Not a good comparison for returns.

[SoxFanForsyth]

But regardless - this team is struggling this year because, while they've been throwing the ball well recently, they've been going up against better pitchers. Good pitching always beats good hitting. They need a true "ace" which is what Hamels would provide.

 

That would allow guys like Lester, Buch, Beckett, and Doubront to slide down 1 slot and be above average pitchers in the 2-5 slots.

 

Say what you want about Lester, he would be an elite #2. Same with Beckett at #3, Buchholz at #4, and Doubront at #5.

[jung]

But regardless - this team is struggling this year because, while they've been throwing the ball well recently, they've been going up against better pitchers. Good pitching always beats good hitting. They need a true "ace" which is what Hamels would provide.

 

Correctamento!!!

 

Hopefully Beckett is OK....How often do these Sox injuries go down this road...First to miss one start, now more likely to miss two starts....here we go again. However you are still right about the lack of a legitimate 1 and how much it would change the profile of the rotation and really the entire staff to put a legitimate 1 on this team.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Correctamento!!!

 

Hopefully Beckett is OK....How often do these Sox injuries go down this road...First to miss one start, now more likely to miss two starts....here we go again. However you are still right about the lack of a legitimate 1 and how much it would change the profile of the rotation and really the entire staff to put a legitimate 1 on this team.

 

It really is the missing link of the rotation.

 

You go out and get a guy like Hamels next offseason, and slide everyone else down? Now all of a sudden you've got maybe the best pitching staff in the AL East. I would put Hamels Lester Beckett Buchholz Doubront up against the Rays staff everyday.

 

Hamels vs Shields - Hamels

Lester vs Price - Toss Up

Beckett vs Hellickson - Beckett, but close

 

Then Buchholz/Doubront over Moore/Niemman all day, those aren't close.

[Spitball]

Hamels will be a great target over the winter, but I doubt the Sox have the prospects to ante up for a top free-agent-to-be-type-starter at this point. I doubt they will be in on Garza, Hamels, or Greinke because of the prospects that will be required.

 

To further deplete the Sox' farm system in a season filled with questions would not be a wise move. A Hamels type pitcher would be great but not logical. That is why I have been advocating buy low targets like Francisco Liriano, Ryan Dempster, or Wandy Rodriguez. Guys who are not number ones but who should help fill out the rotation with quality starts.