2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[SoxSport]

I thought the Reds were a natural trade partner here until rookie Todd Frazier started hitting so competently and playing third so well.

 

There are benefits to keeping the young blood flowing. The Red Sox need to do that more.

[Dojji]

The Dodgers are the natural trade partner when it comes to Youkilis. They're soft on both corners and Loney and Uribe are both subpar talents offensively. If Youk can go on a tear for a couple weeks and get some semblance of his old numbers back, the Dodgers are in a position both in the standings and talentwise to give us a nice return.

 

I lust after Kenley Jansen. If there was *any* way we could leverage Youkilis into Jansen, do it yesterday.

[Dojji]

There are benefits to keeping the young blood flowing. The Red Sox need to do that more.

 

Then they need to do trades for "sure-thing" veterans a lot less, because the guys we traded over the last couple years for "real" talent at given positions could be the solution to a lot of our problems right now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Danny Knobler reporting that "the Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend on trading Youkilis".

 

Just kind of confirmation of what we already suspected.

 

Teams where he would be a good fit:

 

1. White Sox: Leading the AL Central. Their 3B are hitting a combined .162 with a .439 OPS this season. Pathetic. I gotta think they would be the front runners. Adding Youk would really fill in a huge weak spot in their lineup.

 

2. Angels: Surging team. Have a combined .564 OPS from their 3B this season. The Trumbo at 3B experiment didn't work out (defensively), and last I checked, they were playing Maicer Izturis over there. Yikes.

 

3. Guardians: Another AL Central team who is trying to stay in the race (2nd place right now, 2nd WC leader right now). Getting a combined .590 OPS from their first basemen this year. Youk would be a big upgrade, and a lot of teams may see him as a 1B first, 3B second.

 

4. LA Dodgers: After losing Matt Kemp for a month, they need a middle of the order bat. They're not getting it from their corner infielders (1B combined .670 OPS, 3B combined .664 OPS). Youk would be a big help over there.

 

The question is - What do you get back from Youkilis? The only way you're going to get anything back that could come in and make an impact right now is with a RP, since teams can't get compensation picks for RP (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). So maybe a guy like Joe Smith from CLE, realistically speaking.

[evilhand]

There are benefits to keeping the young blood flowing. The Red Sox need to do that more.

 

There are risks, too, though. I just pointed out in the Middlebrooks thread that he has a .400 BABIP and a 29 to 4 k/bb ratio. He's going to come back down to Earth, and he's likely to slump at least once before the season is over. He's not an elite bat yet, while Youk most certainly is. If the team wants to maximize its chances at making a title run this year, I think holding onto Youk is the best way to go.

 

When Pedroia gets back, that likely means moving Middlebrooks back to Pawtucket to keep him swinging the bat regularly, then calling him up just before September starts so that they can go into the playoffs with a roster of Youk, Aviles, Pedroia, Gonzalez, Salty/Shoppach, Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross/Sweeney and Papi at DH with Middlebrooks on the bench as a pinch hitter, defensive replacement, injury insurance, ect ect.

 

I love Middlebrooks, and I'm excited to watch him continue developing, but he's not going to keep up a .400 BABIP and when that drops, so will his overall line. He might be an elite bat in the future, but he's not there yet. Youkilis is.

[evilhand]

Danny Knobler reporting that "the Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend on trading Youkilis".

 

Just kind of confirmation of what we already suspected.

 

Teams where he would be a good fit:

 

-snip-

 

The question is - What do you get back from Youkilis? The only way you're going to get anything back that could come in and make an impact right now is with a RP, since teams can't get compensation picks for RP (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). So maybe a guy like Joe Smith from CLE, realistically speaking.

 

I think a three team trade with the Cubs is a possibility as well. Theo loves three way trades and Youk heading to a third team, prospects heading to the Cubs and Dempster plus a prospect coming back to the Sox could make sense.

[FredLynn]

There are risks, too, though. I just pointed out in the Middlebrooks thread that he has a .400 BABIP and a 29 to 4 k/bb ratio. He's going to come back down to Earth, and he's likely to slump at least once before the season is over. He's not an elite bat yet, while Youk most certainly is. If the team wants to maximize its chances at making a title run this year, I think holding onto Youk is the best way to go.

 

When Pedroia gets back, that likely means moving Middlebrooks back to Pawtucket to keep him swinging the bat regularly, then calling him up just before September starts so that they can go into the playoffs with a roster of Youk, Aviles, Pedroia, Gonzalez, Salty/Shoppach, Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross/Sweeney and Papi at DH with Middlebrooks on the bench as a pinch hitter, defensive replacement, injury insurance, ect ect.

 

I love Middlebrooks, and I'm excited to watch him continue developing, but he's not going to keep up a .400 BABIP and when that drops, so will his overall line. He might be an elite bat in the future, but he's not there yet. Youkilis is.

 

Youk WAS an elite bat until his body started revolting against him. He has played well for just nine games in a row since his return. I responded to you with his statistics since last July, and they are dismal. Of course WMB will slump; they all do. Look at Gonzalez. He has been in a season long slump. I would prefer to go with youth and maximize what we can get (Dempster would be fine) for him now. We need more pitching more than his hitting, which really hasn't been good if you look at the last 10 months.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think a three team trade with the Cubs is a possibility as well. Theo loves three way trades and Youk heading to a third team' date=' prospects heading to the Cubs and Dempster plus a prospect coming back to the Sox could make sense.[/quote']

 

Damn!! I just came in to say the exact same thing.

 

I could see Youk heading to the Dodgers or ChiSox for prospects, which head to the Cubs, and the Cubs trade Dempster or Garza to the Red Sox. We would likely have to give up Youk to the Dodgers/ChiSox + a mid-to-high level prospect to the Cubs, but if we could get Garza in return and put Bard back in the bullpen, it would be worth it.

 

A rotation of Lester Beckett Garza Buchholz Doubront could win a lot of games, especially with guys like Bard, Aceves, Miller, Melancon (who should be called up yesterday), and eventually Bailey in the back of the bullpen.

[User Name]

Youkilis will probably be traded soon if these rumors are already circulating. Twitter is blowing up with it and they list the Dodgers and Cubs as potential trade partners

[SoxFanForsyth]

Youkilis will probably be traded soon if these rumors are already circulating. Twitter is blowing up with it and they list the Dodgers and Cubs as potential trade partners

 

Yup. Kemp just went down for another month, and I just heard Buster Olney talking about how the Cubs are itching to start trading some of their players (i.e. Dempster and Garza, via ESPN) I wouldn't be surprised if a deal happened very quickly.

 

There's really no point in wasting time in the Red Sox or Dodgers case. They're both trying to win this year, and would like to improve their team ASAP.

 

My guess is that the Sox/Dodgers/Cubs have a 3 way deal involving Youkilis, Cecchini/Vitek, Garza, and 2 Dodger prospects (Red Sox pick up majority of Youk's $$$).

[evilhand]

Youk WAS an elite bat until his body started revolting against him. He has played well for just nine games in a row since his return. I responded to you with his statistics since last July' date=' and they are dismal. Of course WMB will slump; they all do. Look at Gonzalez. He has been in a season long slump. I would prefer to go with youth and maximize what we can get (Dempster would be fine) for him now. We need more pitching more than his hitting, which really hasn't been good if you look at the last 10 months.[/quote']

 

Kept that discussion over in the other thread. I will point out here that I'm not completely against trading Youk, I just have a hard time seeing the return being worth as much as having Youk on the roster for a title run plus the two picks they'll get when he doesn't have his team option activated and declines arb to go seek a multi-year deal.

 

I want to make sure people realize that under the new CBA, a player like Dempster won't net any picks if he declines arb and signs elsewhere. The return needs to be a player with more than a half season of control left, or two really nice prospects for it to be worth it, and I'm not sure there are any matches out there that can (and would be willing to) pull that off.

[Dojji]

The Dodgers are the most obvious, as I said last page. They need a player like Youkilis and are in position to contend. The question is what we get out of it. I think Jansen would be ideal but may be too ambitious.

 

I wouldn't scream too loudly if we brought in Ivan Dejesus and a decent A- prospect, because we could use another middle infield type now and in the future and Dejesus has some potential.

 

I think our return is going to be somewhere between the two in value.

[User Name]

Kenley Jansen for Youkilis is not going to happen. The Dodgers don't really have any other back-end BP options. They would make a hole to plug a hole.

[evilhand]

My guess is that the Sox/Dodgers/Cubs have a 3 way deal involving Youkilis' date=' Cecchini/Vitek, Garza, and 2 Dodger prospects (Red Sox pick up majority of Youk's $$$).[/quote']

 

So you see the Sox sending out the best player (Youk), a top 100 prospect (Cecchini), and enough money to cover most of Youk's salary while getting back maybe Garza and a prospect from LA?

 

That would be what we call getting hosed. I'd be livid if that was the return for sending out a package like that.

[User Name]

I don't know about anyone else, but i'd be weary of making a major investment for Matt Garza.

[SoxFanForsyth]

So you see the Sox sending out the best player (Youk)' date=' a top 100 prospect (Cecchini), and enough money to cover most of Youk's salary while getting back maybe Garza and a prospect from LA?

 

That would be what we call getting hosed. I'd be livid if that was the return for sending out a package like that.

 

I think you're overvaluing Youkilis tremendously, and the recipient would only be getting 1/2 of a season of him. That's assuming he doesn't hit the DL again. Again, very much overvaluing him. I hope he comes back and turns back into his old self, but it's a gamble to say the least, considering he hasn't been himself since July, 2011.

 

Did you see the return that players like Gio Gonzalez and Matt Latos got this offseason?? If you want an above average starting pitcher, you have to give up some talent.

 

Garza would be a good return. He's a guy who is able throw 200+ innings. He's got a career 3.86 ERA in the AL East. He would be under control for 1.5 years. And Cecchini is the Red Sox 11th ranked prospect per SoxProspects.com which is much more informed regarding Red Sox prospects than Fangraphs. Also, Cecchini didn't make BA's top 100 or Keith Law's top 100, both of which invest much more time with prospects than Fangraphs.

[jung]

I am not sure Garza blows my dress up either. I will repeat here what I said in the other thread...the Sox need to come out of whatever deal they do for Youk decidedly having gotten more back than they gave up....period. If they can't go there, then don't go anywhere.

 

I don't see how the Sox should be paying Youk's salary at this point...he proved he can play...even nine games takes that off the table in my view unless there is so much coming back for Youk in cost controlled players/prospects that paying part of Youks salary makes sense.

 

Garza might blow up in my face which is why I would be leery of that one. Again I want a decided win in value and I am not sure Garza gets me there.

[evilhand]

I don't know about anyone else' date=' but i'd be weary of making a major investment for Matt Garza.[/quote']

 

He was a very consistent pitcher with the Rays, though he did outperform his FIP and xFIP every year while in Tampa. He's not as good as he looked for the Cubs last year, but he'd be a nice stabilizing force for the rotation in Boston. A solid middle of the rotation type who will chew up innings.

 

Him plus a solid prospect (not a top 100 type... maybe a nice lottery pick) seems like a good return for Youk.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't know about anyone else' date=' but i'd be weary of making a major investment for Matt Garza.[/quote']

 

Please expand. Reasons why you would be weary?

[SoxFanForsyth]

He was a very consistent pitcher with the Rays, though he did outperform his FIP and xFIP every year while in Tampa. He's not as good as he looked for the Cubs last year, but he'd be a nice stabilizing force for the rotation in Boston. A solid middle of the rotation type who will chew up innings.

 

Him plus a solid prospect (not a top 100 type... maybe a nice lottery pick) seems like a good return for Youk.

 

No chance you give up Youk by himself and get back Garza + 1. That's delusional.

[User Name]

Please expand. Reasons why you would be weary?

 

I don't think he'd be a guy who'd rise under the pressures of a market like Boston. This is personal opinion, but from what i've read, he does have some headcase tendencies. That's the last thing the Red Sox need.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't think he'd be a guy who'd rise under the pressures of a market like Boston. This is personal opinion' date=' but from what i've read, he does have some headcase tendencies. That's the last thing the Red Sox need.[/quote']

 

Fair enough. But it's not like Chicago is a small market, no pressure team. Given, they haven't won, but there is a lot of media scrutiny there, much like Boston. Personally, I think Garza would push the Red Sox to the next level and would make them a PS team, not just with him, but with the trickle down effect of having him as an upgrade to the rotation and Bard as a big 8th/9th inning guy.

[User Name]

Fair enough. But it's not like Chicago is a small market' date=' no pressure team. Given, they haven't won, but there is a lot of media scrutiny there, much like Boston. Personally, I think Garza would push the Red Sox to the next level and would make them a PS team, not just with him, but with the trickle down effect of having him as an upgrade to the rotation and Bard as a big 8th/9th inning guy.[/quote']

 

But the Cubs really, really suck. It's a big market, but not nearly as intense as Boston's.

[evilhand]

I think you're overvaluing Youkilis tremendously, and the recipient would only be getting 1/2 of a season of him. That's assuming he doesn't hit the DL again. Again, very much overvaluing him. I hope he comes back and turns back into his old self, but it's a gamble to say the least, considering he hasn't been himself since July, 2011.

 

Did you see the return that players like Gio Gonzalez and Matt Latos got this offseason?? If you want an above average starting pitcher, you have to give up some talent.

 

Garza would be a good return. He's a guy who is able throw 200+ innings. He's got a career 3.86 ERA in the AL East. He would be under control for 1.5 years. And Cecchini is the Red Sox 11th ranked prospect per SoxProspects.com which is much more informed regarding Red Sox prospects than Fangraphs. Also, Cecchini didn't make BA's top 100 or Keith Law's top 100, both of which invest much more time with prospects than Fangraphs.

 

And I think you're severely undervaluing Youk. He's an MVP caliber player when healthy. The only reason he's expendable is that he's been hurt. His talent level is still top of the league. If he was healthy he either wouldn't be available or he'd cost a kings ransom.

 

Giving him up while paying his salary and adding in the number 10 prospect on the farm (Middlebrooks will lose his prospect status shortly) who at least one publication thinks is top 100 in baseball, and who Sickels thinks can be top 20 next year is pure lunacy. The Sox are giving up far more value than they can recoup in that scenario.

[SoxFanForsyth]

But the Cubs really' date=' really suck. It's a big market, but not nearly as intense as Boston's.[/quote']

 

Not nearly as intense in the expectation to win, but just as intense in media scrutiny, meaning every little thing he does in Chicago will be reported just like it would in Boston.

[User Name]

Not nearly as intense in the expectation to win' date=' but just as intense in media scrutiny, meaning every little thing he does in Chicago will be reported just like it would in Boston.[/quote']

 

Hey, it's a matter of opinion. I don't think he can handle it, you think he can. That's fair enough.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And I think you're severely undervaluing Youk. He's an MVP caliber player when healthy. The only reason he's expendable is that he's been hurt. His talent level is still top of the league. If he was healthy he either wouldn't be available or he'd cost a kings ransom.

 

Giving him up while paying his salary and adding in the number 10 prospect on the farm (Middlebrooks will lose his prospect status shortly) who at least one publication thinks is top 100 in baseball, and who Sickels thinks can be top 20 next year is pure lunacy. The Sox are giving up far more value than they can recoup in that scenario.

 

You're getting Youkilis for 100 games. Why would someone give up a strong SP, which is the most valuable position in baseball, who is under control for 1.5 years plus negotiating rights, for 100 games of an injury prone guy who hasn't been himself since mid-July of 2011??

 

That's ridiculous. If you were in the Cubs shoes, you would never, ever make that deal. You have to trade something of value to get something of value. And I didn't say to pick up his entire salary, I just said plus $$$, meaning 1.5-2mm.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hey' date=' it's a matter of opinion. I don't think he can handle it, you think he can. That's fair enough.[/quote']

 

Agree. Would you rather have Dempster or Garza?

[User Name]

Agree. Would you rather have Dempster or Garza?

 

Realistically, Dempster. I'm factoring in not only possible performance, but also cost.

[evilhand]

You're getting Youkilis for 100 games. Why would someone give up a strong SP, which is the most valuable position in baseball, who is under control for 1.5 years plus negotiating rights, for 100 games of an injury prone guy who hasn't been himself since mid-July of 2011??

 

That's ridiculous. If you were in the Cubs shoes, you would never, ever make that deal. You have to trade something of value to get something of value. And I didn't say to pick up his entire salary, I just said plus $$$, meaning 1.5-2mm.

 

No, that's not what you said at all. Here's what I responded to.

 

My guess is that the Sox/Dodgers/Cubs have a 3 way deal involving Youkilis' date=' Cecchini/Vitek, Garza, and 2 Dodger prospects (Red Sox pick up majority of Youk's $$$).[/quote']

 

The majority of Youk's money is not 1.5-2mm. And the difference between Youk and Cecchini with the majority of Youk's salary and Youk and Cecchini and 1.5 million is enormous.