Bobby Valentine: job assessment poll

[SCM33]

And this doesn’t include the near player revolt he had on his hands the very first week of spring training when, the Daily News has learned, he got all over shortstop Mike Aviles in what sources described as “a very ugly scene” during infield drills. After a group of Red Sox players confronted him with outrage, Valentine had to apologize to Aviles.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/boston-v-villain-bobby-valentine-managing-a-short-stay-red-sox-article-1.1065385#ixzz1soiUzRRG

 

I thought last years team was unlikable. I love the Redsox franchise, but I hate this team....

 

Likely players involved if I were to guess? The likely subjects IMO? The same ones I said they should have gotten rid of in the offseason. Mr. Kevin Youkilis and Mr. Josh Beckett.

 

What a trainwreck.

[onlybereaved]

I thought last years team was unlikable. I love the Redsox franchise, but I hate this team....

 

Likely players involved if I were to guess? The likely subjects IMO? The same ones I said they should have gotten rid of in the offseason. Mr. Kevin Youkilis and Mr. Josh Beckett.

 

What a trainwreck.

 

Though I disagree with much of what you say on this forum for the most part...I would be the first to agree or to vote said 2 players the f*** off of our team.

[SCM33]

Though I disagree with much of what you say on this forum for the most part...I would be the first to agree or to vote said 2 players the f*** off of our team.

 

So....then you are starting to agree with some of what I say haha.

[jacksonianmarch]

Here's the deal. You know what you get in Valentine. He's a control freak who flies off the handle a lot and tries to motivate players by the "break them down and build them up" method. Hiring him for a team that is just full of prima donnas without consequences was bound for failure. If the FO effectively sits on the sidelines while Bobby tries to discipline his players, then the inmates will run the asylum and last September will be this whole season. If you hire a manager, you must support him. It seems the FO is hoping V can adapt to Francona's role. Well, he cannot. Francona was the guy who let the inmates run the asylum, and it worked for 8 seasons. They got rid of him because the guys got too soft and needed a kick in the ass. If you hire a guy to kick them in the ass, but don't get rid of the guys who refuse to hear it, then you're wasting your time. They would have been better off with Torey Lovullo or some new manager to cut their teeth than V just banging his head against the wall. This is a trainwreck from management to the coaches to the players. Might be time to clean house

[FredLynn]

So....then you are starting to agree with some of what I say haha.

 

Nope. He agrees with what I say...which just happens to be what YOU say

Its not easy to like this team, is it. So much dysfunction, so much incompetence.

[jung]

So much dysfunction, so much incompetence.

 

So much selfish, s*****, stupid baseball

[jung]

I think the most interesting thing about where V is now and where he started is that he has clearly been castrated. In a few short weeks he has had the team wrested from his control by the players and management, the same guys that only gave him a two year contract to begin with did not back him.

 

BC showed some balls for a change in that supporting the players in their drubbing of V was in a sense a criticism of LL as much as anything else. Unfortunately this is sort of a useless point. BC going to the mats over this one does not accomplish much now does it.

 

So while the Sox hired V for all the wrong reasons to begin with, now that he has been castrated, he will not be able to manage the team like they intended him to in the first place.

 

While I would be less inclined to blow this team up I would blow this organization up with relish. They are a mess. You can draw your own conclusions how they got here. It hardly matters.

 

I think you would have to get down to the peanut vendors to find somebody that you would not want to tear to shreds. Their PR and Marketing has turned to s***. Their player personnel organization seems to also be s***. While Theo is no longer here I don't think we see much difference because a)Theo never had much control in spite of all he efforts to make it look like he had wrested some measure of autonomy for Baseball Operations.

if I am not mistaken many of the same folks that were in Theo's Baseball Operations have remained so the quality of information coming up the pipe from the rank and file Baseball Operations guys must be about the same

 

Recently I had seen the Boston media types taking a new tact on the whole CC thing as it relates to Ells. I have assumed to this point (and I guess it could still be true) that Theo had jumped on the opportunity to grab CC in part because he felt there was no chance of the Sox signing Ells when his contract negotiation came due.

 

Now I have heard something that threw me for a real loop. More recently some of the Boston media types are claiming that Theo went for CC because he or I guess I should say Baseball Operations had come to the conclusion that Ells did not have the goods at the time, that being before the 2011 season. Now lets face it, Boston media types are more often wrong than they are right when offering their "opinions" regarding anything Sox. However if this is true, it amounts to one of the best examples of piss poor player personnel evaluation capabilities I have seen for a long time because this would mean they got it wrong on both ends of the deal. CC will never come close to justifying the money they are paying him. In fact I think we tend to look at what we are paying CC and overlay a performance curve onto him that he is simply incapable of meeting. CC is not a $142M player and is lucky to be an $80-90M player at best. So again if this is true, not only did they misread CC, but they misread a player that they could look at day in and day out in Ells. Anything they did based on the idea that Ells was a confirmed bust at that point would have been a stunning misread and a quick hook to say the least so to speak.

 

To be honest, they are so bad, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. V has been put out on the front end of this thing and granted he has made some pretty bad mistakes so far, all over the place. He has made poor in-game decisions, poor personnel relations decisions and poor media communications decisions. But what he did not heed on the way in or I guess maybe he chose to ignore was the way Tito went out. This is an organization in disarray willing to eat its young to save its own skin.

 

I can see where this is going to make life easier for the other GM's, Managers and Organizations around baseball though. All they have to do at this point is threaten to trade the player in question to Boston. That will straighten the guy out real fast. "Oh God no, please anything I will do anything...just don't trade me to Boston"!

[Elktonnick]

I think the most interesting thing about where V is now and where he started is that he has clearly been castrated. In a few short weeks he has had the team wrested from his control by the players and management, the same guys that only gave him a two year contract to begin with did not back him.

 

BC showed some balls for a change in that supporting the players in their drubbing of V was in a sense a criticism of LL as much as anything else. Unfortunately this is sort of a useless point. BC going to the mats over this one does not accomplish much now does it.

 

So while the Sox hired V for all the wrong reasons to begin with, now that he has been castrated, he will not be able to manage the team like they intended him to in the first place.

 

While I would be less inclined to blow this team up I would blow this organization up with relish. They are a mess. You can draw your own conclusions how they got here. It hardly matters.

 

I think you would have to get down to the peanut vendors to find somebody that you would not want to tear to shreds. Their PR and Marketing has turned to s***. Their player personnel organization seems to also be s***. While Theo is no longer here I don't think we see much difference because a)Theo never had much control in spite of all he efforts to make it look like he had wrested some measure of autonomy for Baseball Operations.

if I am not mistaken many of the same folks that were in Theo's Baseball Operations have remained so the quality of information coming up the pipe from the rank and file Baseball Operations guys must be about the same

 

Recently I had seen the Boston media types taking a new tact on the whole CC thing as it relates to Ells. I have assumed to this point (and I guess it could still be true) that Theo had jumped on the opportunity to grab CC in part because he felt there was no chance of the Sox signing Ells when his contract negotiation came due.

 

Now I have heard something that threw me for a real loop. More recently some of the Boston media types are claiming that Theo went for CC because he or I guess I should say Baseball Operations had come to the conclusion that Ells did not have the goods at the time, that being before the 2011 season. Now lets face it, Boston media types are more often wrong than they are right when offering their "opinions" regarding anything Sox. However if this is true, it amounts to one of the best examples of piss poor player personnel evaluation capabilities I have seen for a long time because this would mean they got it wrong on both ends of the deal. CC will never come close to justifying the money they are paying him. In fact I think we tend to look at what we are paying CC and overlay a performance curve onto him that he is simply incapable of meeting. CC is not a $142M player and is lucky to be an $80-90M player at best. So again if this is true, not only did they misread CC, but they misread a player that they could look at day in and day out in Ells. Anything they did based on the idea that Ells was a confirmed bust at that point would have been a stunning misread and a quick hook to say the least so to speak.

 

To be honest, they are so bad, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. V has been put out on the front end of this thing and granted he has made some pretty bad mistakes so far, all over the place. He has made poor in-game decisions, poor personnel relations decisions and poor media communications decisions. But what he did not heed on the way in or I guess maybe he chose to ignore was the way Tito went out. This is an organization in disarray willing to eat its young to save its own skin.

 

I can see where this is going to make life easier for the other GM's, Managers and Organizations around baseball though. All they have to do at this point is threaten to trade the player in question to Boston. That will straighten the guy out real fast. "Oh God no, please anything I will do anything...just don't trade me to Boston"!

 

Suggest you read Cafardo this AM and Abraham yesterday.

[jung]

I have probably hammered the players on this board more than my fair share. However the team of player was assembled by this deranged management and FO team and while I don't think V deserves much of the blame for any of this, I still think he was the wrong guy to hire for all the wrong reasons and he has still made some terrible in-game moves along with failed player personnel and media communications decisions. There again though that is V being V isn't it? Should not have been a surprise to anybody. The only thing about V that has been a surprise is that Baseball Genius V has not made an appearance yet.

 

It is not a very good team in spite of its monster payroll. It has a few great pieces but it is so poorly constructed that the whole is not only not greater than the sum of its parts, the whole appears to actually be less than the sum of its parts.

 

While the pitching is clearly the biggest problem on this team, the starting pitching with the exception of the 4 and 5 has been a disappointed and the vaunted offense while being the thing this team does best will likely not come in at better than 3rd best in the AL this year and will more likely be 4th best even with CC and Ells back when they come back.

 

I don't think many think much of this is V's fault. V is just the guy that is the visible front man for management.

[bobby-hears-a-who]

I have probably hammered the players on this board more than my fair share. However the team of player was assembled by this deranged management and FO team and while I don't think V deserves much of the blame for any of this, I still think he was the wrong guy to hire for all the wrong reasons and he has still made some terrible in-game moves along with failed player personnel and media communications decisions. There again though that is V being V isn't it? Should not have been a surprise to anybody. The only thing about V that has been a surprise is that Baseball Genius V has not made an appearance yet.

 

It is not a very good team in spite of its monster payroll. It has a few great pieces but it is so poorly constructed that the whole is not only not greater than the sum of its parts, the whole appears to actually be less than the sum of its parts.

 

While the pitching is clearly the biggest problem on this team, the starting pitching with the exception of the 4 and 5 has been a disappointed and the vaunted offense while being the thing this team does best will likely not come in at better than 3rd best in the AL this year and will more likely be 4th best even with CC and Ells back when they come back.

 

I don't think many think much of this is V's fault. V is just the guy that is the visible front man for management.

 

Indeed

 

Part of the dysfunction started when they let Tito and Theo go, not because they should had kept them, but because starting from there you can start pointing to how everything just went downhill. The hit on Tito, the many months it took to pick a manager, the we didn't want crawford comments, etc, etc.

 

The hiring of Bobby was also an indication on how clueless they are. They hired a person that was suppose to put the players on their toes and sign of things to come on how the organization was serious about making tough changes, instead they throw him under the bus and don't back him up. Did he even picked his own coaches? According to some he was in favor of bard in the pen and Iglesias at SS and during the Youk incident he was forced to apologize and his own GM rather than agree with him on how his comments were taken out of context he instead said how he should had never said them.

 

BV was not the right person for this job.

 

 

PS: Did anybody else noticed the old pitching coach, Young, escaped back to Oakland? did any writer bothered to ask why did he go back after being away for just one year ?

[kapsis21]

Indeed

 

PS: Did anybody else noticed the old pitching coach, Young, escaped back to Oakland? did any writer bothered to ask why did he go back after being away for just one year ?

 

he must have seen how disoriented it must be in Boston. there is no leadership. where is John Farell need him really bad... that guy had the personality to be coach here.

[wyo-sox]

Valentine's quote about Youkilis had to do with Youk's drive and passion, right? Unless you know him personally it is probably hard to verify whether that was "painfully honest" or jus "wrong".

 

 

 

Get over last year. The reason Pedroia can talk about the way it is done in Boston is because the Red Sox were one of the most successful teams over the past decade. It isn't productive to talk s*** about players on the team, especially not after winning 3 games against a division rival when the team needs it most.

 

Like it or not, the team has lost 5 straight games since that quote. Is it V's fault? No, but it didn't help.

 

If you're going to push on the Sox players to do the right thing, make sure you're holding the manager to the same standard. A 12 year old could tell you that setting off a firestorm around Youkilis was stupid and completely non-productive.

 

Fair enough I do not know Kevin well enough to know why he I struggling, but what I was trying to relay is that it is obvious Kevin is struggling. And if any player on this team is thrown off his game because of a dozen words spoken by anybody then they need to hang it up.

 

 

You told me to forget about last year in the same sentence you justify Dustins comments by talking about how the team played over the last decade????????

 

I would love to move on from last year but it does not seem the team has. The roster is a bit different, the manager is way different, the GM is different, it is a new season....but it just feel like the same lack of heart. No, I don't know or can't know anyone's passion, but that is what it looks lke to me.

 

And I am holding manager and players to the same standard. Bobby V.is exactly what I expected. Youk, Bucholz, Melancon etc..... are not what I expected.

 

Changing gears..... I suspect really great teams or really lousy teams are probably never the result of any one thing. Either extreme I suspect is the result of a ''perfect storm'' when the right players, right managers, lucky breaks etc..... all fall in place it is easy to be a great club house guy, team leader, say the right things...... and probably easy to start to over value yourself. When the perfect storm brews on the negative extreme....... we will find out who our real leaders are.

[ibot2much]

 

PS: Did anybody else noticed the old pitching coach, Young, escaped back to Oakland? did any writer bothered to ask why did he go back after being away for just one year ?

 

I noticed that. He flew out the door with barely a notice...he must have begged Oakland to take him back. "I hate it there...they're all crazy".

 

I wonder if John Farrell was the enforcer of the old Sox. I have heard the word "intimidating" to describe him. HE apparently kept the pitching staff under control, but maybe all the guys were a little afraid of him. It did seem that all hell broke after he had been gone for a few months

[jung]

I don't think this is about a lack of heart or effort on Youk's part. I think he has aged prematurely....has suffered from being forced to play 3rd instead if 1st and I don't think he has helped himself with this off season weight lifting program which is something he has not done before. 3rd is not the best position for Youk and as he has slowed, his range has diminished.

 

Of the things you can see, you can see that his bat is noticeably slower. That could be a direct result of the weight lifting program in the off season. The other thing you can see clearly is that the former king of walks no longer draws walks. Don't think that has anything to do with the off season weight lifting but clearly he is not drawing walks.

 

As a team, they are playing piss poor baseball in all aspects of the game. In some cases better play was not expected. In other cases, better play should have been expected. Their offense has sucked, their defense has sucked and their pitching defies description. Pitching, the acknowledged most important element of the game defies description.

[bobby-hears-a-who]

Red Sox 0-for-3 on problem solving

 

 

By Tony Massarotti, Globe Columnist

 

The amusing thing, of course, is that the Red Sox did nothing to improve their pitching staff during the offseason. They changed managers and pitching coaches. They reassigned clubhouse personnel. They made just about every cosmetic change possible instead of treating the real, core issues.

The first was to get innings for the starting rotation. The second was to rebuild the bullpen. The third was to improve the clubhouse.

 

They went 0-for-3 with three spectacular whiffs.

 

 

And so now, 14 games into a 2012 season that has been an utter train wreck thus far, the owner of the Red Sox is acknowledging that the club has picked up precisely where it left off. So who are you going to blame now? John Henry is trying to put this on the pitchers, it seems, though the truth is that the Red Sox have done nothing to significantly alter the makeup of their team since last September's embarrassing ineptitude.

Earth to Messrs. Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino: you keep treating last September as if it were some type of mathematical deviation instead of what it actually was - a mutiny. When your players complained, you gave them headphones and invited them on a yacht. The spoiled grew more spoiled. The detached grew more detached. And so what you have now is even worse than what you had a then, a collection of even more entitled, aimless and unmotivated millionaires than you had before.

 

It's OK to get mad, men. It would actually be quite refreshing. It might convince everyone - most importantly, your players - that you actually have spines.

 

Let's go back to last fall for a minute. Instead of taking it upon themselves to fire Terry Francona, who admitted he lost the team, the Sox resorted to calling Francona's decision "mutual." They then decided that they were going to do little or no spending thanks to a collection of dead contracts, taking themselves out of the running for any and all pitching while making a couple of nothing trades for Mark Melancon and Andrew Bailey.

 

Along the way, the Sox "addressed" the clubhouse issues by cutting ties with veterans like Jason Varitek and Tim Wakefield, relatively easy moves with players who had minor roles. Josh Beckett stayed. Kevin Youkilis stayed. David Ortiz and Jacoby Ellsbury stayed. Jonathan Papelbon was cut loose and Daniel Bard was earmarked for the starting rotation, adding to a list of moves that made the Red Sox weaker, not stronger.

 

We said this then and we'll say it now: the Sox needed to shake up the mix with at least one major move that involved a core player. They could have moved Beckett and Ellsbury, for example, the former because he has lost interest, the latter because he was coming off a career year and will likely leave via free agency at the end of next year. They could have cut ties with Ortiz. The resulting changes would have altered the dreadful chemistry of this group and freed up some payroll, two things the Sox desperately needed.

 

The Sox might have suffered in the short term, but even if players like Beckett and Ellsbury were moved for prospects, at least we could all feel like the team was building toward something again.

 

Instead, the Sox have the worst of all scenarios - an aging collection of fat cats with whom they seem stuck.

 

Here's another thing the Sox could have done: they could have trusted the general manager they hired, Ben Cherington, and hired Dale Sveum as manager. They could have let the baseball people do the baseball things. Instead, they introduced the egomaniacal, seemingly out-of-touch Bobby Valentine into an already combustible mix, putting everyone from the 25th man to the manager in a position to fail.

According to a weekend report by Bill Madden of the New York Daily News, Valentine chastised infielder Mike Aviles early in spring training. (This would further validate Valentine's desire for Jose Iglesias.) The players, already on alert given Valentine's reputation, immediately rebuked their manager, who cowered, apologized to Aviles, and subsequently spent the rest of the spring tossing bouquets at the player, going so far as to say that Aviles could strike "fear" into opposing pitchers as a leadoff man.

 

Ellsbury, who was the first 30-30 man in Red Sox history last season, was completely healthy at the time.

 

What the Sox can do now to correct all these problems is anybody's guess because most clubs take a hands-off approach to their rosters until the end of May at the earliest. (Had the Sox traded Michael Bowden for Marlon Byrd over the winter, they could have saved themselves the Cody Ross pickup.) If the Sox are smart, they'll stop playing semantics with Bard and merely move him back to the bullpen full-time, then hope to catch lightning in a bottle by promoting Aaron Cook to the rotation.

 

In the interim, somebody in this organization needs to aggressively take control. Cherington may be the best bet, if for no other reason than the fact that uniformed personnel clearly lack respect for Henry, Werner, Lucchino or Valentine. The players are too childish to sort out their own issues. And so the Red Sox are left with an array of problems and seemingly no one capable of addressing them, largely because they're too selfish or clueless or both

[The Boomer]

I'm going with B; the sample size is way to small to do anything else. However, I can't see how anyone could possibly choose A.

[FredLynn]

I'm going with B; the sample size is way to small to do anything else. However' date=' I can't see how anyone could possibly choose A.[/quote']

 

I think thats the prevailing sentiment, though I have yet to tally the votes (as best I can since some people voted for (D): wrong guy for the job, which deals with something back in history and not the present, be it true or not true). Clearly he has made mistakes. He has admitted as much. I would guess that somewhere around the ASB there should be a large enough sample size to make a better assessment.

I also learned a bit about how to ask questions in a poll, and how not to do so. Next time I will leave out the rhetoric that I used along with the question, though, in fairness, some of the ESPN website polls also have rhetoric in their polls.

[The Boomer]

I think thats the prevailing sentiment, though I have yet to tally the votes (as best I can since some people voted for (D): wrong guy for the job, which deals with something back in history and not the present, be it true or not true). Clearly he has made mistakes. He has admitted as much. I would guess that somewhere around the ASB there should be a large enough sample size to make a better assessment.

I also learned a bit about how to ask questions in a poll, and how not to do so. Next time I will leave out the rhetoric that I used along with the question, though, in fairness, some of the ESPN website polls also have rhetoric in their polls.

 

I doubt ESPN sets the standard for good poll questions. I think © and (D) are both too early to settle on, although I do think Bobby V's biggest issue is his lack of willingness to stick to a plan. Either leave pitchers in or have a quick hook; but try to not to both under questionable circumstances in the span of a week.

[VA Sox Fan]

I thought last years team was unlikable. I love the Redsox franchise, but I hate this team....

 

Likely players involved if I were to guess? The likely subjects IMO....the same ones I said they should have gotten rid of in the offseason. Mr. Kevin Youkilis and Mr. Josh Beckett.

 

What a trainwreck.

 

NY Daily News....:lol: It's not good to believe all we read. No offense to you SCM.

 

 

Aviles, Valentine deny report of 'ugly scene'

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff April 23, 2012 05:51 PM

 

 

On Sunday, a New York tabloid reported that there was a “very ugly scene” between Red Sox shortstop Mike Aviles and manager Bobby Valentine during spring training.

 

On Monday, Aviles and Valentine denied anything happened.

 

Citing a source, Bill Madden of the New York Daily News wrote that there was a “near player revolt” the first week of spring training when Valentine “got all over” Aviles during infield drills. Madden described Red Sox player as confronting Valentine “with outrage” and that the manager apologized to Aviles.

 

"That happened? Not that I know of," Aviles said. "It was all news to me, I'll tell you that much. ... I don't know where that's coming from. I don't know anything about it."

 

Said Valentine: "I just heard about it. It goes from the sublime to ridiculous doesn't it around there? Those New York writers. If we're going to do a full disclosure, which we better do that, at the team party that I threw, I spilled a Coke on one of the player's wives and I apologized."

 

Aviles worked out the entire first week with Dustin Pedroia, Adrian Gonzalez and Kevin Youkilis. Pedroia and Gonzalez said there was no incident.

 

"What?" Pedroia said. "Seriously? That didn't happen."

 

Aviles has started all but one game this season, drawing only praise from Valentine.

 

The Daily News had four reporters at Fenway Park over the weekend. None, Aviles said, asked him about the supposed incident.

[Elktonnick]

NY Dailey News....:lol: It's not good to believe all we read. No offense to you SCM.

 

 

Aviles, Valentine deny report of 'ugly scene'

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff April 23, 2012 05:51 PM

 

 

On Sunday, a New York tabloid reported that there was a “very ugly scene” between Red Sox shortstop Mike Aviles and manager Bobby Valentine during spring training.

 

On Monday, Aviles and Valentine denied anything happened.

 

Citing a source, Bill Madden of the New York Daily News wrote that there was a “near player revolt” the first week of spring training when Valentine “got all over” Aviles during infield drills. Madden described Red Sox player as confronting Valentine “with outrage” and that the manager apologized to Aviles.

 

"That happened? Not that I know of," Aviles said. "It was all news to me, I'll tell you that much. ... I don't know where that's coming from. I don't know anything about it."

 

Said Valentine: "I just heard about it. It goes from the sublime to ridiculous doesn't it around there? Those New York writers. If we're going to do a full disclosure, which we better do that, at the team party that I threw, I spilled a Coke on one of the player's wives and I apologized."

 

Aviles worked out the entire first week with Dustin Pedroia, Adrian Gonzalez and Kevin Youkilis. Pedroia and Gonzalez said there was no incident.

 

"What?" Pedroia said. "Seriously? That didn't happen."

 

Aviles has started all but one game this season, drawing only praise from Valentine.

 

The Daily News had four reporters at Fenway Park over the weekend. None, Aviles said, asked him about the supposed incident.

 

The New York press will now write that BV admits to sharing some "Coke" with a player's wife and the Commissioner and DEA have started an investigation!<_>

[jung]

All the Boston outlets picked up the story and ran with it as well. Who the hell knows! Could be anything from true down to a complete fabrication.

[Dojji]

The boston media sells papers by bashing the Sox. They've been doing it for decades now, and we eat it right up. Doesn't surprise me that they'll run with any rumor going, and presume any Boston figure guilty until proven innocent.

[BornToRun]

Goddamn I'm pulling for V. Sure he's done some questionable things but goddamn is he getting fed one hell of a s*** sandwich.

[Laser Show]

Goddamn I'm pulling for V. Sure he's done some questionable things but goddamn is he getting fed one hell of a s*** sandwich.

 

This.

 

Most people don't realize he has to play with the hand he was dealt. Sure he's made a few questionable decisions, but if he had more control, I think we'd be much better off.

[Dublin Red]

I go with B, closer to A than most people probably - he seems to have to deal with a regular season worth of sh*t all coming at once - injuries & unbelievably bad bullpen

[mvp 78]

s***, if BV was the baseball genius everyone claims, he should have seen this a mile away. I don't feel bad for him.

[SoxSport]

First of all, don't trust anything about the Red Sox that comes out of the NY media. They will print anything to make the Red Sox look bad. The V-Aviles story is a total fabrication--based on the reaction to it. Further, it's hard to find a reason for Aviles to have a conflict with V. Aviles clearly was the anointed SS in ST, so he had no reason to be unhappy. This is just the NY media trying to stir up trouble. Remember they had the Red Sox coming hat in hand trying to get ARod back from the Rangers after the deal fell through? Pure crap.

 

Second, it's hard to judge V's performance to this point. I think he blew that 2nd Yankee game taking out Doubront too soon, but that's just one thing. What's hurting him may be that he doesn't have all the personnel he wanted. He has had to compromise with the FO on issues like Lavarnway, Iglesias and Bard. At least based on the stories Cafardo has written. He probably wants Bard as closer in the absence of Bailey.

 

It could be we are seeing a Bobby V who doesn't have all the pieces he wants--because the FO is having their way on personnel issues. That's a Henry/LL problem.

[SoxSport]

This.

 

Most people don't realize he has to play with the hand he was dealt. Sure he's made a few questionable decisions, but if he had more control, I think we'd be much better off.

 

I think this might be the real situation.

[kapsis21]

Goddamn I'm pulling for V. Sure he's done some questionable things but goddamn is he getting fed one hell of a s*** sandwich.

 

i am with ya!

[Jwmann2]

A and B

 

Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, and Joe Torre combined couldn't do much better with this team.

 

Well said. Not in 40 games anyway.