How Should Bailey's Injury be Addressed by the FO?

[a700hitter]

IMO, they need to add an arm. I think it is a tremendous risk to wait for Dice K and/or Hill to return. They may not be very effective initially. Relying on Cook and Ohlendorf, doesn't solve the bullpen issue unless you send Bard to the pen, and it seems that he doesn't want to close or the FO doesn't want him closing or both.

[kapsis21]

we need to let 15-20 days go by before jumping on this but i agree if by the end of 2 weeks we have 5 blown games its going to be really stupid if FO doesnt put Bard back or like you suggested get Mike Gonzalez i still like that option. he has closed before.

i however like Cook, the way he has pitched in ST, but again nothings a given with us these days... for all we know and our luck he craps his pants once he is on the roster.

[Station 13]

Bard wanted to start or close. The FO wants him to replace Beckett in 2 year at the top of the rotation.

 

As a closer Bard should have his usual low 2ERA, sub 1.00 WHIP. I don't buy so much into the hype of this role. But I want a lock down reliever.

[Station 13]

Rangers are still shopping Uehara, he's a good reliever 10K/9 and sub 2BB/9. Depends on what they ask for, like an OF or something. I want him up upgrade this bullpen.

They got rid of a terrible Chris Davis for Uehara. And he's under contract just this year, and the price can't be that high.

[User Name]

Bard wanted to start or close. The FO wants him to replace Beckett in 2 year at the top of the rotation.

 

As a closer Bard should have his usual low 2ERA, sub 1.00 WHIP. I don't buy so much into the hype of this role. But I want a lock down reliever.

 

This is fabrication. It's been widely reported by credible sources that the one who began the push to become a starter was Bard himself, and no mention of him wanting to close has ever been made.

[a700hitter]

we need to let 15-20 days go by before jumping on this but i agree if by the end of 2 weeks we have 5 blown games its going to be really stupid if FO doesnt put Bard back or like you suggested get Mike Gonzalez i still like that option. he has closed before.

i however like Cook, the way he has pitched in ST, but again nothings a given with us these days... for all we know and our luck he craps his pants once he is on the roster.

I am pretty sure that the Sox FO is actively and feverishly considering all of their options. If they are not, they aren't doing their job. They may way wait a week or two to make a move, so they will have a better idea of what they have in their current bullpen, but they are certainly discussing the items. We're going to be discussing the bullpen like crazy here, so I thought it would be interesting to gauge the thinking of people with a poll.

[ORS]

Immediate Move: I think they should sign Mike Gonzalez. Even if the current back end of the bullpen ultimately proves to capable in those roles, they could use interim help in the middle relief corps.

 

One month out: If it still looks like they need help, make a trade for a good reliever with some of the redundant minor league talent. Especially if Lars Anderson shows his improvement seen in ST is indicative of him finally realizing his potential. He'll never play 1B for the Sox now with Gonzalez's contract. Brentz is expendable as a corner OF with Kalish being a better overall talent. If both are playing well, I think you could package them to pry a good arm from a team needing offense.

 

I think doing either, or both, of those things, depending on how things shake out, should be sufficient to bridge the gap to the post-June BP, which looks like it will be a strength.

 

Down the stretch, I think a BP of .....

 

Bailey

Bard (after he hits his inning limit as a starter)

Melancon

2 or 3 of Hill/Morales/Miller/Gonzalez (all lefties)

Aceves

None or 1 of Padilla/Bowden for long-relief/mop-up

Reliever acquired by trade if that happens

 

and a rotation of .....

 

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Matsuzaka

Doubront (I think Cook fizzles in the AL East eventually)

 

....should be more than adequate to make a run.

[a700hitter]

Rangers are still shopping Uehara, he's a good reliever 10K/9 and sub 2BB/9. Depends on what they ask for, like an OF or something. I want him up upgrade this bullpen.

They got rid of a terrible Chris Davis for Uehara. And he's under contract just this year, and the price can't be that high.

I do like Uehara. He has closer potential too.

[a700hitter]

Immediate Move: I think they should sign Mike Gonzalez. Even if the current back end of the bullpen ultimately proves to capable in those roles, they could use interim help in the middle relief corps.

 

One month out: If it still looks like they need help, make a trade for a good reliever with some of the redundant minor league talent. Especially if Lars Anderson shows his improvement seen in ST is indicative of him finally realizing his potential. He'll never play 1B for the Sox now with Gonzalez's contract. Brentz is expendable as a corner OF with Kalish being a better overall talent. If both are playing well, I think you could package them to pry a good young arm from a team needing offense.

 

I think doing either, or both, of those things, depending on how things shake out, should be sufficient to bridge the gap to the post-June BP, which looks like it will be a strength.

 

Down the stretch, I think a BP of .....

 

Bailey

Bard (after he hits his inning limit as a starter)

Melancon

2 or 3 of Hill/Morales/Miller/Gonzalez (all lefties)

Aceves

None or 1 of Padilla/Bowden for long-relief/mop-up

Reliever acquired by trade if that happens

 

and a rotation of .....

 

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Matsuzaka

Doubront (I think Cook fizzles in the AL East eventually)

 

....should be more than adequate to make a run.

I think a mid-level arm should do the job for now to help the pen settle in. In another month, if that doesn't work out, I'll post another poll.

[ORS]

I think a mid-level arm should do the job for now to help the pen settle in. In another month' date=' if that doesn't work out, I'll post another poll.[/quote']

So, we kind of agree right now? WTF is the world coming to?

[a700hitter]

So' date=' we kind of agree right now? WTF is the world coming to?[/quote']Isn't the world supposed to end in 2012?

 

I've always felt that there is much more agreement on issues on TalkSox than people realize, because posters get caught up in minutia and they have different ways of expressing things. Sometimes people debate each other when they really are in agreement because they are expressing things in a different manner. A failure to communicate. Often times E1 has debated an issue with me that we agreed about. Sometimes I think he has a knee jerk aversion to my agreeing with him, so he feels it necessary to rethinks his position. It's unsettling to him if we agree. That is amusing to me.

[ORS]

Well, I don't find it unsettling, but it does feel like it's worthy of mention.

 

I think the one thing that drags this place down from time to time, and I admit, despite my best efforts to avoid it, I have been guilty of it in the past (I think everyone has), is holding grudges. Disagree and move on.

[Dojji]

Bard. does. not. WANT. to. close.

 

How the **** don't people have a problem with putting Bard in a situation he deliberately tried to maneuver his way out of ??? Do you really think Bard's going to pitch well in a role he doesn't want to be in? Does that ever happen?

 

I could stand Uehara. That might even be a great move.

[FredLynn]

ORS has made a decent argument for Bard in the rotation. I am not sure I agree with it,but at least it makes some sense in the long term. I still favor returning him to the pen as closer because he has great potential there as long as he is not overused.

Also, I take issue with the "Bard wants to start" posts. Bard has the right to say what he likes, but one of the major problems with this team is that too many players are dictating how the team is run...like Beckett last year demanding a caddy catcher and Ortiz demanding to be in the lineup to pad his stats or Wakefield remaining in there to go for his 200th win to the detriment of the team last year. That stuff has to stop. If its better for Bard to be in the bullpen FOR THE TEAM, then thats where he belongs, no matter what HE wants.

[a700hitter]

Well, I don't find it unsettling, but it does feel like it's worthy of mention.

 

I think the one thing that drags this place down from time to time, and I admit, despite my best efforts to avoid it, I have been guilty of it in the past (I think everyone has), is holding grudges. Disagree and move on.

Agreed. As we proved once again today, even frequent disagreement on issues, philosophies etc. doesn't preclude agreement on the next issue. I don't mind the disagreements, because with rare exception, every point of view has at least some merit. There are times when I can't find merit to an argument. I am still having trouble with Doji's position that we started the season 8 starters deep. I can't get close on that one, but that doesn't mean that Doji doesn't make a lot of good points on other issues. Most of us make a lot of good points. Doji, please don't take offense. This is just a recent example of a very rare circumstance.

[VA Sox Fan]

So' date=' we kind of agree right now? WTF is the world coming to?[/quote']

 

[a700hitter]

Bard. does. not. WANT. to. close.

 

How the **** don't people have a problem with putting Bard in a situation he deliberately tried to maneuver his way out of ??? Do you really think Bard's going to pitch well in a role he doesn't want to be in? Does that ever happen?

 

I could stand Uehara. That might even be a great move.

I like the Uehara idea, but i don't know what it would take to get him, and what about the budgetary restraints.

[FredLynn]

Bard. does. not. WANT. to. close.

 

How the **** don't people have a problem with putting Bard in a situation he deliberately tried to maneuver his way out of ??? Do you really think Bard's going to pitch well in a role he doesn't want to be in? Does that ever happen?

 

I could stand Uehara. That might even be a great move.

 

Do you really think Bard's going to pitch well in a role he doesn't want to be in?

 

Yes I do. I expect him to put the team first and be a PROFESSIONAL. Last I checked Daniel Bard did not own the franchise. Like every other employee I expect him to do his job, and that is to pitch for the Boston Red Sox, wherever they tell him to pitch.

[Station 13]

Bard. does. not. WANT. to. close.

 

How the **** don't people have a problem with putting Bard in a situation he deliberately tried to maneuver his way out of ??? Do you really think Bard's going to pitch well in a role he doesn't want to be in? Does that ever happen?

 

.

 

You can't proof that Bard does not want to close.

[a700hitter]

I don't think this issue is whether Bard will pitch well in a role he doesn't want. I think the Sox made a commitment to let him win a starting job. He prepared himself and won the job, not by overwhelming acclamation, but he did enough to win the spot. The words and commitments of the FO should mean something. I think they feel committed to letting him prove himself. If he craps all over himself for 3 or 4 starts, they might feel that he blew his chance and put him back in the pen.

[a700hitter]

You can't proof that Bard does not want to close.

But he is on record about his preference to start. That is not in question.

[kapsis21]

I like the Uehara idea' date=' but i don't know what it would take to get him, and what about the budgetary restraints.[/quote']

 

and everytime we deal a player to Texas seems like we are always on the bad end of the bargain.. i still miss David Murphy

 

but if Bard doesnt want to close my vote changes to get a FA, or trade. i opted for Cook in starting and Bard to closer..

[Dojji]

ORS has made a decent argument for Bard in the rotation. I am not sure I agree with it,but at least it makes some sense in the long term. I still favor returning him to the pen as closer because he has great potential there as long as he is not overused.

Also, I take issue with the "Bard wants to start" posts. Bard has the right to say what he likes, but one of the major problems with this team is that too many players are dictating how the team is run...like Beckett last year demanding a caddy catcher and Ortiz demanding to be in the lineup to pad his stats or Wakefield remaining in there to go for his 200th win to the detriment of the team last year. That stuff has to stop. If its better for Bard to be in the bullpen FOR THE TEAM, then thats where he belongs, no matter what HE wants.

 

And again I ask: Do you really think Bard would even do a good job in a role he doesn't like or want?

 

I want my closer to want the ball. I want him to DEMAND the ball in the ninth and be PISSED OFF if he can't have it. Bard is so far away from that ideal that he has been moving heaven and earth NOT to get the ball in the 9th. That says all that I need to know to tell me that Daniel Bard is NOT the answer at closer, as tempting as it might be to stereotype him in that role.

[Dojji]

But he is on record about his preference to start. That is not in question.

 

Pretty much. And his stated desire to start comes in context of a clean run at the closer's role since this talk was starting before the Bailey trade.

 

He practically had the closer's role on a silver platter and if he had any desire to pitch in that role, why would he be asking for a different role he probably isn't as well suited for?

[a700hitter]

Pretty much. And his stated desire to start comes in context of a clean run at the closer's role since this talk was starting before the Bailey trade.

 

He practically had the closer's role on a silver platter and if he had any desire to pitch in that role, why would he be asking for a different role he probably isn't as well suited for?

Starting clearly is his preference, but that doesn't preclude his success in another role. Goose Gossage came up as a starter and preferred starting too. Things ended up pretty good for him. The same can be said for Eck.

[Dojji]

Yes I do. I expect him to put the team first and be a PROFESSIONAL. Last I checked Daniel Bard did not own the franchise. Like every other employee I expect him to do his job, and that is to pitch for the Boston Red Sox, wherever they tell him to pitch.

 

It takes more than professionalism to be a successful closer. There's a mindset involved, and if Bard is willing to go into the rotation for only the second time as a pro rather than compete for the closer's role, he probably doesn't have that mindset.

[a700hitter]

It takes more than professionalism to be a successful closer. There's a mindset involved' date=' and if Bard is willing to go into the rotation for only the second time as a pro rather than compete for the closer's role, he probably doesn't have that mindset.[/quote']I think the Sox do need to honor the commitment they made to Bard. If he proves that he is not up to the task, all bets are off and he goes back to the pen.

[FredLynn]

And again I ask: Do you really think Bard would even do a good job in a role he doesn't like or want?

 

I want my closer to want the ball. I want him to DEMAND the ball in the ninth and be PISSED OFF if he can't have it. Bard is so far away from that ideal that he has been moving heaven and earth NOT to get the ball in the 9th. That says all that I need to know to tell me that Daniel Bard is NOT the answer at closer, as tempting as it might be to stereotype him in that role.

 

Ever been asked at work by your boss to do a job you don't particularly like? I know I have. My boss named me to be the team leader in implementing the electronic medical record system at Kaiser in Northern California not only for my service area but to participate in teaching this all over Northern California. I had lots of travel time and stays in hotel rooms for two years while this system was being implemented. I did not like this assignment at all. I am not particularly adept with computers, and that is, in part, why I was chosen. My boss thought that if I could learn it, anyone could, I guess. Despite my dislike for this assignment, I did it because I was told to do it. I grew into it, gradually, and it made me more competent with Health Connect, the medical record system, and with computers in general.

If Daniel Bard is told that the team needs him to close games, I EXPECT him to accept this over whatever personal preferences he has. Although I don't recall ever hearing him quoted as stating that he would not like to close games (I do remember him saying that he prefers to be a SP), in the end, his desires have to take a back seat to team needs. Whether this is the best solution to the current problem is another issue. The bottom line is that every single player needs to put his wants and needs on the back burner so that the TEAM can succeed.

[FredLynn]

It takes more than professionalism to be a successful closer. There's a mindset involved' date=' and if Bard is willing to go into the rotation for only the second time as a pro rather than compete for the closer's role, he probably doesn't have that mindset.[/quote']

 

I wonder if Julian Edelman liked being assigned to the Patriots secondary or to the special teams instead of the slot receiver role he started in. There are numerous other examples of Patriots football players being asked to step outside of their preconceived roles, their PREFERRED roles, to do something else. I am sure Lars Anderson would prefer to play first base, but he is now going to take reps in the outfield. Youkilis was told to play the OF; he didn't like it out there, but he said he would play where he was told to play. Thats the kind of TEAM FIRST mindset I expect of EVERY player, including Daniel Bard. Its an essential mindset for the future success of this team.

[Dojji]

And that's not good enough when it comes to the 9th inning. I do not want the guy whose job it is to take the ball in that inning have it anywhere in his mind that he doesn't want to be there