Bard to Rotation a Mistake?

[onlybereaved]

Everything points to Aceves being a better fit as a starter when compared to Bard IMO. I just don't think forcing the issue and trying hard to make Bard a starter is productive or worthwhile.

 

Just my ignorant two-cents, really.

[mvp 78]

What team has 11-12 solid pitchers? Most have 2-3 garbage pitchers. Worrying about Bowden or Albers seems like a waste of energy to me.

 

Miller is hurt, Padilla is hurt, Morales is hurt, but let's just cut Bowden and Albers for the hell of it. That's just being silly.

[a700hitter]

What team has 11-12 solid pitchers? Most have 2-3 garbage pitchers. Worrying about Bowden or Albers seems like a waste of energy to me.

 

Miller is hurt, Padilla is hurt, Morales is hurt, but let's just cut Bowden and Albers for the hell of it. That's just being silly.

You are right. The injuries will keep Bowden and Albers around for a while. The fact is that we just have no pitching depth to cover for those injuries. I said it earlier that the success of the pitching this season will ride on Bard's ability to handle the rotation spot. If he blows up, we just don't have adequate depth to cover 2 rotation spots.

[OrtizFan]

You are right. The injuries will keep Bowden and Albers around for a while. The fact is that we just have no pitching depth to cover for those injuries. I said it earlier that the success of the pitching this season will ride on Bard's ability to handle the rotation spot. If he blows up' date=' we just don't have adequate depth to cover 2 rotation spots.[/quote']

 

How many teams don't have problems at the back-end of the rotation? I hope the Bard experiment will work, but we can always move him back to the pen and move on.

[Elktonnick]

What team has 11-12 solid pitchers? Most have 2-3 garbage pitchers. Worrying about Bowden or Albers seems like a waste of energy to me.

 

Miller is hurt, Padilla is hurt, Morales is hurt, but let's just cut Bowden and Albers for the hell of it. That's just being silly.

 

That's what happens when you shop at the Dollar Store. Stuff breaks easily

[OrtizFan]

That's what happens when you shop at the Dollar Store. Stuff breaks easily

 

That didn't stop Dice-K and Lackey from breaking? I'd rather a cheap vase break than an expensive eyesore.

[Station 13]

I like what I saw out of Bard last night. He settled in later in the game, and was still throwing 97 in the 5th. I still want to see him attacks hitter more with softer stuff. I didn't see a first pitch offspeed strike. There was just 1 well hit ball last night off him, and it's the blind squirrel finding his nut type.

[Dojji]

Yeah I thought what we saw out of Bard was acceptable. Big thing it showed me -- and this is actually really, really important -- is that the kid can button down after letting in a few runs. That's not a given. Buchholz had real trouble learning to do that if you recall. So it's a good sign.

[Elktonnick]

That didn't stop Dice-K and Lackey from breaking? I'd rather a cheap vase break than an expensive eyesore.

 

It just took them longer

[User Name]

Yeah I thought what we saw out of Bard was acceptable. Big thing it showed me -- and this is actually really' date=' really important -- is that the kid can button down after letting in a few runs. That's not a given. Buchholz had real trouble learning to do that if you recall. So it's a good sign.[/quote']

 

There were a lot of positives to take out from Bard's outing, some people see them, some people refuse to.

 

The stuff is there, he's keeping the ball on the ground, and most importantly, he's keeping his velocity.

[Dojji]

I started out as a huge skeptic on this experiment, probably the most outspoken one. And I have to admit I'm coming around.

[User Name]

I started out as a huge skeptic on this experiment' date=' probably the most outspoken one. And I have to admit I'm coming around.[/quote']

 

Same over here. But my main point of contention (his control problems) seem to still be an issue. The problem is that with that stuff it looks like he'll be able to overpower hitters to the point where he can still be very effective.

[jung]

All reasonable expectations except for one undeniable fact. It is difficult to come back from behind in games where you hand the game over to the pen while you are behind. How much was last night a reminder of last year. Frankly I think that is particularly true of this Sox pen.

 

Bard ends up handing over the ball behind 3-2 and while it was only a ST game what was the final score? 9-2 Jays.

 

the 3-2 deficit was a direct result of the walks in the 2nd and the Sox never recovered. You cannot walk lead off batters and expect to win baseball games. Love Bard's stuff....what to see him make it. But I don't think he will if he expects V to accept so many first batter walks in innings.

 

Hell send him down the clubhouse steps between innings and let him visualize his motion....something....somebody on that damn team help this kid solve the exact same problem he had last year so he can start games or we will see a procession of walks like the ones we have seen in his last two stints.

[kapsis21]

it beats me how bad our starting lineup looks when we compare our to TB starting 6 pitchers. Price Shields Hellickson Nieman Davis and Moore... and i bet our bullpen if Bard is going to be in the starting rotation which will be comforting if he starts to figure out the walks, but the bullpen beyond Bailey (still a slight question mark) and Aceves looks like a complete joke. Melancon Morales Albers Bowden Miller ...

I have a feeling this season due to lack of both starting and bullpen depth is going to hurt and my stomach is already crunching and we havent even started the season

 

^^ jung i have to agree, so many times the starting pitcher left with a marginal 1-2 run deficit and bullpen does what it did best last year 2 runs here 2 more there... grrrrrr

[RedSoxNC84]

it beats me how bad our starting lineup looks when we compare our to TB starting 6 pitchers. Price Shields Hellickson Nieman Davis and Moore... and i bet our bullpen if Bard is going to be in the starting rotation which will be comforting if he starts to figure out the walks, but the bullpen beyond Bailey (still a slight question mark) and Aceves looks like a complete joke. Melancon Morales Albers Bowden Miller ...

I have a feeling this season due to lack of both starting and bullpen depth is going to hurt and my stomach is already crunching and we havent even started the season

 

^^ jung i have to agree, so many times the starting pitcher left with a marginal 1-2 run deficit and bullpen does what it did best last year 2 runs here 2 more there... grrrrrr

 

I don't think we need to be in panic mode about the bullpen, or even the rotation for that matter.

 

Sure Bard is giving up walks, that I believe can be worked out. If he can cut his walks down some, he'll be performing like a #4 starter. We don't need him to be an ace, although it would be nice.

 

The pen just doesn't seem to be all that bad to me, sure they gave up some runs in spring training, but it's spring training. They are testing guys out, guys are competing for jobs in there right now. Just because we aren't steamrolling in a spring training game, doesn't mean the season is going to turn out the same.

[kapsis21]

I don't think we need to be in panic mode about the bullpen, or even the rotation for that matter.

 

Sure Bard is giving up walks, that I believe can be worked out. If he can cut his walks down some, he'll be performing like a #4 starter. We don't need him to be an ace, although it would be nice.

 

The pen just doesn't seem to be all that bad to me, sure they gave up some runs in spring training, but it's spring training. They are testing guys out, guys are competing for jobs in there right now. Just because we aren't steamrolling in a spring training game, doesn't mean the season is going to turn out the same.

 

i want to believe what you are saying but ther is going to be comparison factor, effin yaknees have mo, robertson, cory wade(never figured that one out how they got a hold of him) logan joba and soriano... every pitcher in their bullpen did well against us last year.. the rays come up with no namers in bullpen and still get outs when needed cuz their SP goes 6-7 innings every time.

i just dont feel we are on the right track with bullpen pitching. and i really hope they prove me wrong.

[RedSoxNC84]

i want to believe what you are saying but ther is going to be comparison factor, effin yaknees have mo, robertson, cory wade(never figured that one out how they got a hold of him) logan joba and soriano... every pitcher in their bullpen did well against us last year.. the rays come up with no namers in bullpen and still get outs when needed cuz their SP goes 6-7 innings every time.

i just dont feel we are on the right track with bullpen pitching. and i really hope they prove me wrong.

 

I see what you're saying, and there is a lot of "IF" going on in our bullpen. I'm not saying 100% it's going to be perfect, but I'm not that worried about it either. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully everything will piece together.

[kapsis21]

I see what you're saying' date=' and there is a lot of "IF" going on in our bullpen. I'm not saying 100% it's going to be perfect, but I'm not that worried about it either. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully everything will piece together.[/quote']

 

great now Andrew Bailey blows the 1 run lead ...that too against Pirates ... cant wait to get ST to be over already!!

[jung]

Is Bailey closing today or is in yet another of these relief roles? Bailey needs to be put in position to close. However if that is where he is today and he blew the lead, that is not what I would hope for.

[kapsis21]

Is Bailey closing today or is in yet another of these relief roles? Bailey needs to be put in position to close. However if that is where he is today and he blew the lead' date=' that is not what I would hope for.[/quote']

 

he wasnt closing, he was in the 7th inning with a 1 run lead.

[Station 13]

Closers pitch earlier in games before the starters leave during spring training.

[jung]

Closers pitch earlier in games before the starters leave during spring training.

 

In fact all pitchers end up pitching all over the place in ST. However I do think it is hard to get an accurate read on what a closer will do unless he is in position to close. There is something to be said for putting him in the role he is designed for especially when it relates to closers. Point being I guess I am not quite as concerned as I would be if he had actually blown a save.

[kapsis21]

In fact all pitchers end up pitching all over the place in ST. However I do think it is hard to get an accurate read on what a closer will do unless he is in position to close. There is something to be said for putting him in the role he is designed for especially when it relates to closers. Point being I guess I am not quite as concerned as I would be if he had actually blown a save.

 

my bad i should have said gave up the lead instead or mentioned 7th inning but still its against Pirates for crying out loud..

[jung]

Hate to ask kapsis but do you have anything on the guys that pitched ahead of Bailey today?

[jung]

Sorry man...just found the info.

 

I guess Buch was so so. Padilla finally got tagged like I expected he would giving up three doubles in a row.

 

Sox lose...yuk. Thank God these are spring loses.

[User Name]

Sorry man...just found the info.

 

I guess Buch was so so. Padilla finally got tagged like I expected he would giving up three doubles in a row.

 

Sox lose...yuk. Thank God these are spring loses.

 

Wait, what?

 

Neither Bucholz nor Padilla pitched against the Pirates today.

 

It was Lester-Tazawa-Bailey-Morales.

[jung]

That is what I thought it was supposed to be. I must have pulled up the wrong internet site.

 

Pulled up the earlier Pirates game.

[jung]

Looks like Lester had the only notable line score.....4 ER on 8 hits and 2 BB in 3 innings in a 6-5 losing effort.

 

What is up with Sox Pirates this ST. I am so conditioned to losing to these guys that I am not even checking to see what game it is. I was in and out of here for the earlier game and did not recognize the line score from it. Should have noticed Padiila who likely won't pitch for a bit.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

According to Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com, one Red Sox staff member has told others outside the organization that Daniel Bard will be headed back to the bullpen and Alfredo Aceves and Felix Doubront will have spots in the starting rotation.

It was assumed that Bard would be given every chance to win the No. 4 spot in the rotation this spring, but the tide seems to be turning in the other direction after he has walked seven batters and allowed 10 hits across 7 2/3 innings over his past two starts. The Red Sox have yet to make an official announcement on their rotation, but manager Bobby Valentine wondered out loud following Tuesday's game whether Bard has what it takes to stick as a starter. Stay tuned.

 

Good, I hope this dumb idea is over with.

[jung]

Well this might sound like a reversal on my part but it really is not.

 

Bard has got terrific stuff. From where I sit there is only one thing standing in his way and that is the issue with his mechanics which lead directly to his lack of control. I don't see why the Sox have not been able to work this out with Bard or even improve it a little. When I see how poor his mechanics are sometimes it looks like the Sox have done nothing to help him improve. Remember this is exactly the issue he had last year and for my money it almost looks like he has regressed a bit in this particular regard. As bad as his mechanics were at times last year I don't remember him looking as hurky-jerky at any point last year when compared just to this ST.

 

Bard is a real deal talent with serious heat and movement that has done a good job in my view of developing secondary pitches.

 

Now the kid appears to have tried to work toward the rotation because that is what the Sox want and they are going to kick him back to the pen while still not having done anything that I can identify to resolve or improve his mechanics.

 

Honestly I am beginning to lose patience with this team. Wasted money....squandered talent.....this is starting to look ugly. If Iggy goes back to the minors at this point to me that will be one more step in the wrong direction.

 

OK so maybe Bard has to go back to the pen. My point is nothing seems to get better. Players seem to stagnate here lately. I am beginning to have nightmares that start with Bard and Doubront finding their way to others teams where, low and behold, they begin to flourish because somebody smarter than we are finds ways to resolve their issues and/or get the most out of them.

 

For all the money they spend they seem to sit there with their thumbs stuck up their asses when it comes to actually moving the team forward. I don't know what happened to these guys after 2004 and surely after 2007. However something is wrong. Can't say I know what it is but there is something just not right about the way this team functions. So far, it does not appear to me that V has changed much of that other than window dressing. Probably unfair because he is only one guy and he has not had much time. But there is something wrong here that I think goes past the Manager anyway.